Automated HERMS system

dozer4412 · Nov 6, 2009

Bar Keepers Friend is good for cleaning SS. Should be able to find it at Bed Bath, Target or Walmart.

http://barkeepersfriend.com/Special.htm

P.S. Man that looks nice. Let me know when you get to motor speed control with an SSR, really interested to hear how that goes.

MultumInParvo · Nov 6, 2009

I have nothing important to add, but I just wanted to tell you how sweet that is. I just spent a good chunk of time reading fully through this thread and the whole thing really pumps me up. This is great looking, and I love the idea of a fully automated homebrew system. Really, really, really, sweet.

bkloos · Nov 15, 2009

Hey Guys,

All I can say is JACKPOT!!!

I've been working up a brewery of my own, and I am going to take inspiration from this thread and incorporate some of the automation ideas into my system! Thanks!

Let me ask one question, and pardon if it's been covered prior in this thread.

With respect to the pumps, will you have any mechanism to bleed out the lines for priming?

Also, will you keep the majority of your valves/manifolds under the brew surface or tie on your solenoids directly at the kettle?

Very nice thread!

Thanks,

Bryan

silverbrewer · Nov 15, 2009

Wow! I have just spent the evening reading this thread. Fantastic effort.

As for my 1.2 pence worth (UK Based) Will the pump supply liquids fast enough to the cooling/heating coil to get turbulent flow, and thereby up the efficiency.

On sparging.... As you seem to have a good budget, why not buy a twin tube Perastaltic pump and dedicate it to sparge duties? You would get perfectly matched flow rates and they self prime, so it can be fitted above the containers and suck the wort out. That's how I will be doing it using my 3 tube DIY pump.

For your next project, you want to contact NASA, they need a shuttle replacement soon and you guys should get it sorted rapidly.

kladue · Nov 15, 2009

Check out Beerthirty's rig for a system with automatic air vents that bleed air from pump suction and discharge connections. They were purchased from Grainger for about $8.50 each.

mplutodh1 · Nov 16, 2009

blackheart said:
Any recommendations on what to scrub the SS with?

Looking great guys! Your design has inspired several items in our new build.

For SS - you might read the thread about polishing keggles (DIY section). Gator Grit pads and an angle grinder - takes a while from what I hear. Picking up pads tomorrow (grinder and keg already here). Barkeepers Friend works great too - with elbow grease of course.

blackheart · Nov 16, 2009

Big updates. We have assembled the fittings multiple times and finally found a combination that works. here are pictures of everything assembled and leak free.

blackheart · Nov 16, 2009

More pictures!

We tested and measured string lengths by using string then cutting the string and measuring the pieces.

Still waiting to get more Tri-clover hose barbs so we can assemble everything but now we know how much hosing we need (~40ft) anyone know the best place to buy 1/2" silicon tubing for less than $2/ft?

Boerderij_Kabouter · Nov 16, 2009

It is probably worth going to US plastics if you need close to 50'. Make sure to get the thick walled stuff or reinforced.

It looks incredible!!! Prosit

blackheart · Nov 16, 2009

No luck... its still like $2.22/ft for 50 ft

RonRock · Nov 16, 2009

This may be worth a bit of effort;

This is the stuff myself and few others got from eBay seller ngs2009 (Nora Stark):

Sani-Tech Tubing STHT-C-500-5F New in Package - eBay (item 120337468973 end time Nov-22-08 17:13:15 PST)

New and Sealed Sani-Tech Tubing - 50 Feet - .500 ID x .187 Wall - .875 OD

Features/Benefits:
Ultra-pure biopharmaceutical-grade silicone
Unsurpassed surface smoothness
Ultra flexible
Autoclavable and sterilizable
Temperature range from 80°F (-62°C) to 500°F (260°C)
Imparts no taste or odors
Meets USP Class VI, European Pharmacopoeia 3.1.9, and FDA criteria

Typical Applications*:
Sterile Fill and transfers
Drug delivery
Media processing
Sanitary peristaltic pump tubing
Laboratory use

She may not have anything listed. Email her. A friend of mine just bought 100' worth of the stuff from here a couple of days ago.

B3 sells similar stuff about about 2-3x the price. Hers has walls x2 as thick too.

Kal

This is a copy/paste from another thread. Kal pointed me to this tubing. I bought 50' at the time. Very good and a great price. I just checked Ebay and there is none listed at this time, but as the quote says, email her she may have some.

Seems like it was less than $50.00, closer to $40.00 IIRC. Good stuff.

kappajoe · Nov 16, 2009

Do you know her email address? would you send me a PM if you do?

blackheart · Nov 17, 2009

I just sent her an email (searched for her username) so we will see. It would be nice to order it by this week and get it sometime next week. we only have 7 barbed fittings but I think we might be able to test most things out with just the 3 tubes we could make from that for right now. Still waiting on maybe more fittings coming in.

Still surprised at how easily the whole system moves full of 45 gallons of water. thats about 500lb of weight on those wheels and I can still move it by my self, though I would not recommend it often.

RonRock · Nov 17, 2009

That is how I found her when I bought mine. I'd like to buy another section if she has more. LMK when she replies.

blackheart · Nov 19, 2009

She has none in stock right now... she does have .625IDx.125WALL 50' for $25 and shipping is $20

So its about half price of what we would pay elsewhere. BUT its a bit too big.... so Im not sure if it will work. Going to go home and see what the calipers have to say.

skipdog · Dec 5, 2009

I need to ask a dumb question. Great thread by the way. Why is it so important to use stainless steel fittings instead of brass? In case i'm missing something arent you using a copper tubing in the HLT that has wort passing through? Isn't that contradicting the high importance of stainless? Stainless is very expensive if we are just using it for looks. Please no responds saying its food grade and cleaner. We already know that. The question is why are we using copper for tubing if it is bad?

Thanks :mug:

pickles · Dec 5, 2009

Copper isn't bad at all. I'm using stainless because I don't want to have to clean tarnish off a bunch of copper fittings all the time. It certainly won't hurt anything though. People have been using copper cookware for ever. Stainless is also a lot more durable.

mplutodh1 · Dec 5, 2009

skipdog said:
I need to ask a dumb question. Great thread by the way. Why is it so important to use stainless steel fittings instead of brass? In case i'm missing something arent you using a copper tubing in the HLT that has wort passing through? Isn't that contradicting the high importance of stainless? Stainless is very expensive if we are just using it for looks. Please no responds saying its food grade and cleaner. We already know that. The question is why are we using copper for tubing if it is bad?

Thanks

As you will see, Brass, Stainless and Copper are common in home brew setups. However in reading your post I think you mix copper and brass up bit. Yes many use Brass fittings because they are much cheaper, however (and it sounds like you've maybe already done some reading on it) Brass does typically contain lead. When it comes to hose fittings - wort is not in contact with them for a very long period of time at all - this is why many are OK with using it in their hose setups.

Copper does have it's own "issues" but if cared for properly (flush and rinse with water and allow to dry - not using harsh cleaning chemicals) it usually does just fine. Not to mention copper is a less expensive and more readily available source for things such as wort chillers, dip tubes, etc. Copper does have much better heat related properties that help in cooling/heating applications (worth chillers, heat exchangers, etc).

For those truly anal about the metals in contact with their wort you'll usually see stainless across the board. But as you note, it's expensive.

So bottom line, it all depends on what the home brewer is willing to spend $ on and their personal preferences. Every metal has their pros and cons.

For our brewery - we're trying to avoid brass wherever possible; however copper we're OK with, to come up with a more cost effective solution.

mplutodh1 · Dec 5, 2009

Another good article by Palmer you might be interested in:

http://www.byo.com/ - Mettallurgy for Home Brewers

Each material has its advantages and disadvantages depending on the product form and where you want to use it in the brewery. Aluminum and brass are often the most economical choices, but require more attention and gentler cleaning regimens. Copper has long been a clear favorite for do-it-yourselfers because of its easy fabrication, high thermal conductivity and expense, but the cost has now increased to the point where stainless steel is often more economical. Stainless steel has always been the gold standard for brewing equipment due to its excellent corrosion resistance and durability, but the cost of an all-stainless setup used to be prohibitive. The availability of less expensive stainless alloys for valves and fittings is changing that. Weigh your wants and needs and use the information in this article to build a brewery that works best for you.

Vinic · Dec 5, 2009

more from Master Palmer:

Cleaning Brass
Some brewers use brass fittings in conjunction with their wort chillers or other brewing equipment and are concerned about the lead that is present in brass alloys. A solution of two parts white vinegar to one part hydrogen peroxide (common 3% solution) will remove tarnish and surface lead from brass parts when they are soaked for 5 minutes or less at room temperature. The brass will turn a buttery yellow color as it is cleaned. If the solution starts to turn green and the brass darkens, then the parts have been soaking too long and the copper in the brass is beginning to dissolve, exposing more lead. The solution has become contaminated and the part should be re-cleaned in a fresh solution.

trailblazer · Dec 5, 2009

thats the nicest build i think ive ever seen besides a full brewery

bkloos · Dec 8, 2009

Hey Guys,

Just wondering if you have had time to run a wet test of the system. I am about to start building my manifold based on your flow diagrams and would love any initial input.

My plan is to keep all the solenoids and T's in a central location and run flex hose to the vessels, with the addition of one valve to direct wort to the fermentor without disconnecting any plumbing...

I'm hoping the flow diagram is working well.

Have you had any issues with pump priming and air-lock?

Looking forward to seeing some more pics when they are available.

Thanks!!!

Bryan

skipdog · Dec 13, 2009

What size piano hinges did you use for the tippy dump? The width and dowel pin size?

Thanks

mplutodh1 · Jan 5, 2010

Any updates guys? Anxious to see how things are going.

blackheart · Jan 5, 2010

We have been stalled lately with the holidays and all. We recently had a New Year's party with 5 different beers on tap, though none were made on the new system. Amber ale, Extra Amber ale, 90 minute clone, Holiday ale, and a French roast coffee porter.

We are working on some of the fittings and electronics at the moment. We need to still bend the SS tubing that will make up the HLT coil. I think we have most of the speciality items that are needed for the electronics. First we are building the power source, then the Hub where all of the valves etc will connect, then the controller which will house the manual controls as well as the micro controller.

Using a computer PSU to get the 12vdc, and the 24v inverter to power the gas valves. Need to make a trip to the hardware store to find a suitable project box to hold everything. We will be using a combination of different sizes of 3.5mm phono jacks, barrel jacks, and AC outlets to connect everything. Hopefully moving forward asap on all of those things. The snow on the ground is tempting us all to the slopes so we will see what happens. Still attempting to get better heat in the brewery now too.

Not sure on the hinges. I will have to ask our welder.

knito · Feb 12, 2010

Hi,

It's first time that I write to you but I'm following your project from the beggining. In a matter of fact, I'm trying to make a similar Herms system with a few differences. One of the difference is that I want to plumb all the pumps and valves, with stainles steel conectors and use only 8 silicon tubes connections, from the valves/pumps to the tanks. I think that It would be less re-configurable that your dessign, but easy to make electrical connections.

When I was plumbing my valves, I saw that there could be a "direction" problem. Knowing that solenoid valves only works in one direction, I don't know how will react valves 1, 2, 3 and 4
in some circunstances that can receive a reverse flow.

1) When you start pump 2 and open valve 3, looking to send worth to the coil in, valve 2 will remail closed and receive a reverse flow.

2) When you start Pump 1, Valve 3 will receive a reverse flow

3) When you start Pump 2 and open Valve 7 looking to fill the keetle, Valve 1 will receive a reverse flow

4) When you start Pump 2 and open Valve 5 looking to fill the Mash Liquid tank, Valve 4 will receive a reverse flow

I understand that in cases 1 and 2, the other pump itself would help to stop the reverse flow, and in cases 3 and 4, liquid will prefer to go to that keetle and mash liquid tank that go trough the other valve, , It is right? It will be enough?

Thankyou for your time (answering my observation and making/sharing so nice and usefull project).

Claudio Catanzaro

P.S. Apologize my bad english, I live in Lima - Peru and we talk spanish

blackheart · Feb 15, 2010

You are correct. The valves are designed to work mainly in one direction. They will allow liquid to flow in either direction when open and when closed mainly stop flow in one direction. The way we have everything setup, the closed valves we do not want liquid to flow to should resist the pressure from the pumps. Hopefully, regardless of the direction of the valves the pressure will be low enough to block most if not all of leaking into the wrong tubes.

More updates coming soon!!

knito · Feb 16, 2010

I know that is late for you (and also form me) because we've bought our valves, but, It would be the same problem if we use Normally Open valves? I see that is usual to use Normally Close valves, but analyzing how does it works, I think that Normally Open valves would not have reverse flow troubles.

Claudio Catanzaro

BrewBeemer · Feb 16, 2010

The valve manufactures must have specs spec sheets on their own own products for the minimum and maximum forward and backward operating pressure limits of their valves.

knito · Mar 10, 2010

I'm delayed with my project, but I' still worry about reverse flow... Hos do people who knows work with it? Do they put check valves? Check valves works with worth? Are they sanitary?.

Or maybe I don't need to pay attention on it. The lack of documentation and questions on google let me think that It's not a big deal.

Claudio

Automated HERMS system

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