Aeration/Oxygen Equipment Question

Well Santa brought me a couple LHBS certificates and I'm going to want to buy either aeration/oxygenation equipment as I move to full boils and sooner than later all grain from partial mashes.

I'm thinking something like these maybe:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/aeration.html

A couple questions I couldn't find answers to with a quick search:

1) How do you sanitize this stuff? Just throw the stone/hose in with the other stuff?

2) Aeration/oxygenation, which is better, which do you like?

I see the oxygenation equipment just hooks up to an o2 bottle and diffuses it into the wort, that seems like the easiest thing to do.........no pumps or anything......just a bottle of o2.

For you o2ers, how long do those bottles last/how much do they cost?

Thanks again everyone!

I have a stainless aeration stone and I just boil mine prior to use and when I get done. The only thing I dont like about mine is the size of the holes.(Microns) They are so small that it causes pressure to build up in my hose between the stainless air stone and the pump and it causes my stone and hose to float to the top, so I have to add additional weight to get it to sink to the bottom of my carboy. I would like to get a little more flow of air to my carboy but thats what I have so I deal with it. Good luck

Thats the same setup I have it works fine for me other than the hose floating because of the air restriction. The only thing I sanitize is the hose and stone that go into the wort. I use idophor, and after use clean with hot water and sanitze and store. I try to replace my hoses at 3 or 4 months but thats just me.

I bought the same pump from PetSmart for $19.99 ... the tubing was $2 and I got a stone for another $2, although the stone was volcanic rock and not stainless.

Austin Home Brew is where I bought the stone. I guess they have differant stainless stones that are differant sizes. Not sure which one I have

Given the choice, go with the oxygenation setup. You get significantly better results in 30 seconds with o2 than you could max out with an airation setup over 30 minutes.

You can boil the stone like stated prior. I do this in a pinch, or I steralize it in a pressure cooker, if I have the foresight. You should be able to get it fairly clean using a sanitizer of choice and a little longer soak. (Pumping sanitzer solution through the stone is also a slightly better option.)

Ryan_PA said:

Given the choice, go with the oxygenation setup. You get significantly better results in 30 seconds with o2 than you could max out with an airation setup over 30 minutes.

You can boil the stone like stated prior. I do this in a pinch, or I steralize it in a pressure cooker, if I have the foresight. You should be able to get it fairly clean using a sanitizer of choice and a little longer soak. (Pumping sanitzer solution through the stone is also a slightly better option.)

Click to expand...

Wort can only hold so much oxygen regardless of how it gets in there. If you aerate with air 60 minutes will ge your wort fully saturated. One trick for getting your stone and tubing down to the bottom is to thread the tubing through a (sanitized) racking cane.

GT

I like the degassing wand over oxygen systems. Lasts forever, easy to sterilize, oxygenates like crazy, plus is great as a whirlpool device:

http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?GC_Category=Equipment&PartNumber=4666

I wouldn't buy that. I'd get teh actual oxygen system, and I'd get it from Williams Brewing.
1. its cheaper
2. it comes with a SS airstone on a 22" SS wand, so it lasts forever
3. its pure O2 using a Benz-o-matic oxygen tank you can buy at ANY hardware store for $8

30 seconds of pure Oxygen and you're pretty much set. No need for an in-line filter either, which you do have to use with a basic aquarium air pump. Canned oxygen is pure enough for our purposes.

Got Trub? said:

Wort can only hold so much oxygen regardless of how it gets in there. If you aerate with air 60 minutes will ge your wort fully saturated. One trick for getting your stone and tubing down to the bottom is to thread the tubing through a (sanitized) racking cane.

GT

Click to expand...

From: http://byo.com/mrwizard/1128.html

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif] Fact: Wort has an oxygen content of about 8.5 ppm when saturated with air (79% nitrogen and 21% oxygen) and an oxygen content of about 43 ppm when saturated with oxygen.

Fact: 0.57 liters of oxygen at standard temperature and pressure weighs 813 mg. When dissolved in 5 gallons or 18.8 liters of wort, this results in a concentration of 43 ppm. After the saturation point is reached, no more oxygen can be dissolved into wort. In other words, it doesn’t take long to saturate wort with oxygen (or air when aeration is being performed)."[/FONT]

Ryan_PA said:

From: http://byo.com/mrwizard/1128.html

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif] Fact: Wort has an oxygen content of about 8.5 ppm when saturated with air (79% nitrogen and 21% oxygen) and an oxygen content of about 43 ppm when saturated with oxygen.

Fact: 0.57 liters of oxygen at standard temperature and pressure weighs 813 mg. When dissolved in 5 gallons or 18.8 liters of wort, this results in a concentration of 43 ppm. After the saturation point is reached, no more oxygen can be dissolved into wort. In other words, it doesn’t take long to saturate wort with oxygen (or air when aeration is being performed)."[/FONT]

Click to expand...

What conclusion do you derive from those facts, Ryan_PA? That using pure O2 is better than using air to aerate wort?

I don't personally have an opinion on which is better and I honestly don't know. I use air right now because I have the pump and stone setup for that. I might switch to oxygen for convenience in aerating in-line between my plate chiller and my fermenter. But I'd point out that despite having provided those facts that you referenced, Mr. Wizard himself nevertheless uses air for aerating wort prior to fermentation. He states that he uses pure O2 for yeast propagation only. And his reasons seem to be because he gets good results using those methods. Makes you wonder if the manner of wort oxygenation or the actual PPM really matters much so long as the degree of saturation is at least in the range of 8 ppm, which can be achieved using either method.

This discussion is about as close to "tuning" as one can get.

Either using filtered air or a "pure" O2 tank we can cleanly provide more oxygen for our yeast than by not using it.

Fact: A vigorous pour into a fermentation vessel disolves O2 and the yeast can still make beer in it.

Neither O2 infusion method is truly "needed" and either of them will give your yeast more oxygen to work with. Ryan's post only says there's no need to give it "extra" air or o2 - there's no benefit once it reaches it's saturation method.

billtzk said:

What conclusion do you derive from those facts, Ryan_PA? That using pure O2 is better than using air to aerate wort?

Click to expand...

Yes. I do agree that any attempt beyond splashing the wort around is better, however infusing the wort with o2 is always going to be a better option. I am not sure how he has found that air works better for him than pure o2, I would be interested to understand the reasons and factors that had him come to this conclusion. Assuming you are using an inline hepa filter, and properly sanitizing your line and stone, contamination threats are almost completely mitigated. However, nasties cannot live in a pure o2 environment.

Homebrewing is an everchanging hobby. It is about finding what works for you. For me, the 30 second shot of o2 that yields a higher ppm works better than the 30 minute infusion of air. (I have done both)

I just said in another thread the other day, yeast is as imprtant to beer as grain and hops; yet it is most commonly gets the least attentin by homebrewers (obvioulsy there are exceptions). Underpitching and poor aeration are easily avoidable issues, and two of the most important aspects of yeast (the third biggest is working in a sanized environment.)

Again, any effort to aerate is good, but there are degrees to goodness.

I have been using the NB kit with the pump, stone & hepa. Seemed to work good but took a hour for a 10 gallon batch. I just got te Williams kit and a o2 tank from the hardware store, I cut my brewday by 59 minutes & my yeasties will be at least as happy as they were before and probably a bunch happier & healthier.

Ryan_PA said:

Homebrewing is an everchanging hobby. It is about finding what works for you.

Click to expand...

Agree. I'm always studying, trying to learn from others, and tweaking my process to either improve my beer, minimize the tedium, or increase my pleasure in the hobby.

All I'm calling into question are conclusions that are based on anecdotal evidence, aristotelian logic, or hearsay and faith versus sound scientific method. And not only about this subject, but about all of the sacred cows of homebrewing. david_42 and another person in a different thread brought up the sacred cow of autolysis. conventional wisdom says that you shouldn't leave your beer sitting on the trub and yeast cake in primary for more than a two or three weeks as your yeast will start to die and pollute your beer, yet many people do so without apparent ill effects (up to 8 weeks in the relevant posts on that thread).

But it's not like I have the answers. Like Mr. Wizard said in that article, homebrewing is a hobby of exploration. And on the scientific front, the effects of oxygenating under different conditions is still under study.

I used the SS Stone and Benz-o-matic setup for the first time Sunday and the Activity about blew a half gallon of wort out in foam. Major difference to me.

I got the Williams Kit before they raised prices a while back and it was a great buy. I still think it would be a good investment because the wand keeps the stone at the bottom without modification. Also (approximate) saturation takes much less time with pure O2. The tanks can be purchased at any hardware store and are about $8. Make sure you have an extra on hand, as it's annoying when you go to use only to find out that it's empty. Also, I recommend taking regulator off between uses, because they can leak and leave you unprepared come brew time.

I've gone through several iterations of aeration techniques (including nothing, splashing, shaking, and pure O2 through a stone), but do you know what the best single improvement to my beer has been?

PITCHING THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF YEAST!

My last several brews have been the best examples of that. I rehydrated between 20 and 30 grams of dry yeast (depending on OG) for each 15 gallon batch. Aeration was simply whatever I attained through allowing the cooled wort to splash into the fermenter. Lag time was well under 12 hours in each case, and fermentation was vigorous with high attenuation.

Don't take my word for it, read Dude's review.

So you ask, "What's the point, Yuri?" To quote Mr. Wizard from Ryan's article, "It sometimes seems like homebrewing has advanced from “Relax, don’t worry, have a homebrew” to “Stress out so much that only a homebrew can calm you down." If you consistently underpitch, aerate away. If it makes you feel better, use pure O2. Mostly, pitch the proper amount of yeast and RDWHAHB!

I almost bought this one because it comes with stainless tubing which helps keep the stone on the bottom of the fermenter. It was a bit too pricey for me so I just got the regulator and I will Jerry rig the rest of it.

EDIT: left field brewer already mentiond this!

Thats the one I got, will be taking it for a test drive tomorrow. I am sure one could be rigged up with an old corny tube in no time.

I agree with Yuri's train of thought. I aerate my starters (using a pump and stone and filter), decant off the wort and pitch a health amount of yeast.