Worst bottling session ever

[z-bob]

I just bottled 3.5 gallons of cider that I started 3 weeks ago. (it was a 4 gallon batch, I left a quart in the fermentor to start the next batch, and spilled a quart on the floor.) I could not keep the siphon going. I was putting it up in 500ml bottles, and I could almost get one filled before the tube would fill up with outgassed CO2 and break the siphon and I would have to start over. I was ready to dump the whole batch. Finally I put a 2-hole carboy cap on the carboy, with the racking cane in the big hole and a plastic tube on the small one. The only way I could bottle it was to blow into the tube to pressurize the carboy, and even then CO2 was coming out of solution in the tube and I was getting a lot of suds in the bottles. What was supposed to be a relaxing 15 minute task was a 45 minute ordeal. If it was beer, the way I did it would have contaminated the whole batch. I think a 7% ABV cider will be okay, there's not enough nutrients left for anything but acetobacter, and there's not enough air in the bottles for that.

I guess next time I will degas the cider a week before I bottle it. Also I'll put a hose clamp on the hose where it attaches to the racking cane in case there's air leaking in at that point.

This was my first time fermenting with BV7 yeast, but I don't think that was significant.

 

[hotbeer]

Are you pressure fermenting? Or bottling while the yeast are very active producing CO2?

Otherwise, if cider like beer you leave until the SG stabilizes at it's lowest value, I'd think what you had was air in the line that you didn't remove before holding the end of the hose at a level lower than the liquid in the fermenter.

With very small diameter hoses, the air will be pushed out. But for a hose even just 3/8" (9 mm) ID, the forces of the liquid many times won't push out any air bubble you let get in the hose as you start the siphon. To get rid of the air is a crazy process to work the bubble to the open end without losing the siphon. I'd rather not try to describe the antics I sometimes go through.

Also, sometimes a siphon will suck in air from fittings and connections that aren't quite tight enough to seal well. I put vinyl electrical tape or fusible silicone tape around mine.

But I'll probably want to try making some hard cider sometime in the future so if it's fermenting and bottling are significantly different then let me know.

 

[z-bob]

No, not pressure fermenting, and the yeast was no longer producing CO2. But I had not disturbed it and the dissolved CO2 from fermentation had not dissipated yet. I have had this problem with beer before, but just enough to make it hard to get the siphon started, not enough to continuously break the siphon.

I suspect it was 2 problems that compounded each other. Offgassing of dissolved CO2 (because there's a slight vacuum in the tube) and maybe a leak where they hose slipped onto the racking cane because it went on easier than usual, and the tiny air bubbles (I did not see any) created nucleation points for the CO2.

Bottling cider and beer is the same, but I use a little more priming sugar with the cider just to make it fizzier.

 

[ncbrewer]

maybe a leak where they hose slipped onto the racking cane because it went on easier than usual

My bottling tube makes a pretty loose fit on the auto siphon. I have to use two cable ties over it to get it to seal well.

 

[MaxStout]

Looks like you did something like this:

Maybe that's the best way from now on, just in case you get the CO2 thing again.

 

[z-bob]

Looks like you did something like this:

Maybe that's the best way from now on, just in case you get the CO2 thing again.

That's exactly what I did, except without the air filter. Also it looks like the hose might have a clamp in the picture.

I'm going to try that siphon hose and dip tube again with a carboy half full of water to see if it's leaking air where the hose attaches. I might just need to add a fuel line clamp next time.

 

[MaxStout]

That could be it--some air leak contributing to loss of siphoning. Maybe it would also help to use a longer hose and put the receiving vessel lower to increase siphon pull.

 

[madscientist451]

I ferment cider in my cold basement or out in the garage and don't even think about bottling until spring. I do transfer to secondary though, about January or February....I probably won't even finish pressing until after Thanksgiving.
I haven't gotten around to bottling the 2020 batch yet, its still sitting in carboys. I have kegged some though.
So I guess my point is just get some more carboys, rack to secondary and you won't have as many problems when you go to bottle your cider.

 

[BrewZer]

I'd consider (quietly) decanting to a bottling bucket with a spigot -- no siphon issues to worry about there.

 

[z-bob]

I examined the hose I was having problems with. It's just a little larger than the one I normally use. Usually I have to run hot water over the hose ends so I can force it on the racking cane and bottling wand. This one fit nicely without that. 5/16" vs 3/8" ID maybe? Or the one of them is metric? I bought some 1/2" spring hose clamps today; the ones commonly used on small engine fuel lines and you can almost open with your fingers. I have some wine that's ready to bottle that is fully degassed. I'll try the same hose and racking cane, first without a clamp and then with to see if that maybe that was the problem. I did push the hose about 2 inches onto the cane and it wasn't loose, but maybe it leaked just enough to cause turbulence and drive the CO2 out. I should be able to see that even if it doesn't hurt anything with the degassed wine.

 

[hotbeer]

Just realize that if there is an air bubble in the hose when you begin, it won't go away without some effort on your part to move the bubble out the end of the hose. In larger diameter tubing it's unlikely you'll have enough flow rate to overcome it's buoyancy.

After all, with a siphon you have to keep the hose end lower than your liquid level in the supply. So the bubble will rise to the top where physics takes it and stay there happily aerating the fluid that passes by. If its a CO2 bubble, not so bad. But a air bubble might be different if O2 is bad for cider too.

 

[z-bob]

Just realize that if there is an air bubble in the hose when you begin, it won't go away without some effort on your part to move the bubble out the end of the hose. In larger diameter tubing it's unlikely you'll have enough flow rate to overcome it's buoyancy.

After all, with a siphon you have to keep the hose end lower than your liquid level in the supply. So the bubble will rise to the top where physics takes it and stay there happily aerating the fluid that passes by. If its a CO2 bubble, not so bad. But a air bubble might be different if O2 is bad for cider too.

I usually have enough flow rate to clear an inch or two of bubbles. This time, starting with less than that they grew much faster than I could clear them.

 

[JaggersBrewingCo]

My Sour kit is like that the hose is just a little bit bigger then the siphon. I can for sure make things take longer then necessary.

 

[Toxxyc]

I'm done bottling with a bottling wand and siphon, by the way. I use a corny. Sanitize the corny, fill with CO2 and then siphon the liquid into the corny. Pressurize very lightly (like 5PSI), just enough to dispense.

To bottle, I use a party tap with a ~1 foot piece of regular 3/8" beer line that I leave in my sanitizing bucket. The beer line pushes into the party tap's opening and seals really well enough to bottle easily from the bottom of the bottle. I then place the sanitized bottles in their crates and just bottle with the party tap in hand, moving bottle to bottle while just flipping them closed as I'm done.

Works like a charm. I'll take some pics next time I do it (probably tomorrow).

 

[estricklin]

Sorry you had a bad bottling day. I usually look forward to, and enjoy bottling, but one cannot plan for everything.

This probably won't make you feel any better, but I once bottled a 15 gal batch and realized on the last 2-3 gals that I had not added priming sugar.