Wine bases and aseptic purees

[Leblais]

Hey guys,

First let me say, we do not have any cheap access to fruits. We do not farm, know farmers and dont even have any large scale fruit growers too close to us that I know of, so cheap local fruit is probably out of the question.

I am mostly a beer brewer but I have a friend that is into wines. He had been taking a bunch of fruit (mostly grapes, strawberries, peaches, bananas ) then added some sugar and a "secret" ingredient of a bag of tropical trail mix, and some distillers yeast, which "didn't work" so he through in some bread yeast, YUCK! It actually came out pretty good, oddly enough. I explained that perhaps he could make it a lot cheaper and potentially better, with other things.

So, we were talking about blackberry wine. I was looking into Aseptic Fruit Purees, but OMG are they expensive!!! The actual per pound price was great! 44 lbs of blackberry puree for $85 , but the shipping jacked the price up by $50 for that. If I bought 3 of them the shipping was still like $120!!!. Seems very expensive but it may still be the way to go.

The other option I saw was Vintners Best blackberry wine base. It had ok reviews, but then I read someone say that it tasted "chemically" . Is this a bad direction to go in for a good wine?? It is a LOT cheaper at $35 for a reconstituted 5 gallon batch. Any input would be great...

 

[Yooper]

The Vintner's Best is "ok". It really only makes 3 gallons of wine, as it is far too diluted at 5 gallons. I mixed it with some real blackberries and it was ok, but not as good as my regular blackberry wine (all fruit). I did that to make my blackberries go farther with the final 10 pounds. It didn't taste chemically at all.

I've never heard of Aseptic Fruit Purees, so can't compare them.

 

[Blacksmith1]

"chemically" may be a side effect of stressed yeast, or a mistake on the brewers part.
It seems to me if it were the wine base there would be more than one person with that complaint.

 

[lump42]

There are a few orchards and farmers markets near by you that you might be able to get seconds from if you reach out and let them know what you are planning. In my experience local fruit isn't usually cheaper than frozen or packaged fruit purees, but depending on the farm, the quality can be much better.

Bastiani's Blueberry Farm, Hebron
Dondero Orchards, Glastonbury
Rose's Berry Farm, Glstonbury
Belltown Hill Orchards, Glastonbury
Savitsky Farm, Colchester (CSA farm but may have seconds to sell that couldn't go into shares)
Deercrest Farm, Glastonbury
Bozrah Farmers Market

 

[Bubbles2]

Real Organic Juice, Not Cocktail, Not flavored. Might want to plant a tree, bine, etc. Find your zone, find what grows there and Grow. Be it in a container because of your limited space or if you have a yard.
I bought a place 3yrs ago, removed both front, back, and side lawns. Mulched and planted trees and Bines. If I can't smoke it or eat it, it aint worth growing. Err except for a few Maples for shade for the house.

 

[Seamonkey84]

I haven’t heard of aseptic before. It’s my first try with concentrates myself, I have a can of vintners that I’m about to use and heard great stuff about them. Vintners best has corn syrup, their harvest line doesn’t. The directions say to use one can for 3-5 gallons, use the three gallon recipe unless your adding more fruit.

 

[JimRausch]

Here's a thought- do 1 gallon batches. 1 gallon will yield 4 wine bottles plus a hefty glassful at bottling time. And the beauty of it- the ingredients won't break the bank.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Aseptic Fruit Purees/Papagayo seems to have a good reputation and price point. I've never personally used them.

I have never been anything less than impressed by Oregon Fruit's products. Every single thing I've used has been fantastic tasting, never artificial (and yes, real fruit can taste plenty artifiical). But Oregon Fruit seems to be even more expensive. And can be tough to get certain offerings out of season.

Plus side, Country Malt Group sells Oregon Fruit puree. If your LHBS orders from CMG (and a bunch of money says they do) they can probably special order from Oregon Fruit for you, and save you drastically on shipping.

 

[Leblais]

Man, I love this forum. Always soo much useful info!! I looked oregon fruit puree and the cheapest I can find it is about $19 per can (3# can). That price is without shipping! That would be like $2000 for the 44 lb I was looking to get from aseptic which they charge only $85 plus shipping! I am thinking it may still be worth just going with the 44 lbs of aseptic. I think it comes to about $260 for 88 lbs shipped, and that way I can make about 10 gallons of a 6ish percent wine.

 

[Qhrumphf]

You must be looking in the wrong places. IIRC a 44lb container of blackberries should be pretty similarly priced.

You definitely don't want the little cans they sell in stores.

 

[Qhrumphf]

https://shop.fruitforbrewing.com/

$94 for a box (which IIRC is 44#) of blackberry puree. Two box minimum though.

 

[Qhrumphf]

But as I said, the BrewCraft arm of Country Malt Group sells Oregon fruit wholesale. And I bet any homebrew shop in the US gets stuff from CMG. It's a matter of asking if they can request it for you on their next pallet from CMG. Should cost a fraction of the shipping (or maybe even nothing at all if they just toss it on top of a pallet without increasing the freight charge, BSG has done that for me many times).

 

[lump42]

But as I said, the BrewCraft arm of Country Malt Group sells Oregon fruit wholesale. And I bet any homebrew shop in the US gets stuff from CMG. It's a matter of asking if they can request it for you on their next pallet from CMG. Should cost a fraction of the shipping (or maybe even nothing at all if they just toss it on top of a pallet without increasing the freight charge, BSG has done that for me many times).

From Hebron city center to two LHBS that sell CMG in Hartford: 15-20 miles (25-30 min) Or there is the list of orchards in my post above that ran U-pick operations, they'll easily have 50 lbs.

 

[Seamonkey84]

How much wine does 44lbs of purée make? Is it used weight for weight replacement for whole fruit or is it part concentrate?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I can't speak for other sources, but Oregon Fruit gives you the Brix (and advertises a range). They look to be just pureed fruit.

From there I'd say it depends on how strong you want. Many of these probably won't reach "wine" strength without adding sugar or concentrating them. More like cider strength.

It'll vary a bit by the fruit but a 44lb box usually ends up being ~5 gallons or so (i would estimate a little less).

 

[Seamonkey84]

With fruit I’d expect to have to add more sugar, just wondering if this was pound for pound equal to fruit. I’ve seen directions for Vintners purée (49oz) makes 1-2.5 gal per can. While their fruit base of 96oz makes 3-5 gallons, which is about the same ratio. Now that I say this, I’m wondering if I should try a can of purée in with the can of fruit base

 

[Qhrumphf]

(And I looked it up, Oregon Fruit "boxes" are 42lbs and average 4.8 gallons)

 

[Qhrumphf]

And pound for pound will depend on solids content. Oregon Fruit removes skins, seeds, and/or pits, so you could probably use 15% less than whole fruit (unless you're weighing after doing the same). Can't speak for other suppliers.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Also just wanted to make clear since this thread reads like I'm a goddamned sales person, I have nothing to do with Oregon Fruit. They're just the best I've used. Other "purees" from others I've used (Amoretti comes to mind) have been rubbish.

I have not used the supplier the OP mentioned but I know others who speak very highly of them, so if the final price point is better, go for it.

I'm also not a winemaker (except for one time years ago I made Yooper's Welch's Wine). All my experience is with fruit and beer.

 

[Leblais]

Ok.. I see what you are saying about the "bulk" purchase.... If I ship direct I am back to over 300 for 2 boxes, but if brew and wine hobby will order it for me and say make a 10% markup, I would def be better off to go this route! I was just there today and should have asked. I will probably call them tomorrow and see what they say...