White labs customer service -- horrible

[Lost_Arkitekt]

First, I have to start off by saying...

WHITE LABS CUSTOMER SERVICE SUX BALLS!

So, here is the story. I bought two White Labs Yeast Strains through The Pursuit Supply company. The yeast is distributed via LD Carlson.

The yeast strains are WLP400 (1 pkg) and WLP410 (2 pkgs)...Witbier and Witbier II respectively. The WLP410 is a platinum yeast strain and it is only available in May/June. Since The Pursuit Supply didn't have them, they ordered them from LD Carlson and I had them a couple days later...May 18th (they called me and I drove right there and picked them up).

Now, when I got home, I noticed the dates on the yeast were weird. The WLP400 (year round) was packaged a month before on April 18th. With shipping and distribution...not that big of a deal. The PLATINUM strain (two pkgs) which are only available MAY/JUNE were packaged in January (14th) and had a Best by: JUL 12 date on them...less than two months after I got it.

I wrote White Labs and they didn't want anything to do with it. Told me they had no control of what the distributor does with the yeast. Hold on...for a yeast that is only available May/June WHY were they packaging it in January?

Got in touch with LD Carlson...rep there said they get White Labs shipments weekly...and she'd get to the bottom of it. That was May 20th.

Just now hearing back. White Labs literally told the rep that it was a "typo" and that it expires on JUL 12. NO ****! There is no typo. LD Carlson didn't receive that yeast till May 4th. WTF is White Labs thinking? I'm literally speechless.

 

[jmcquesten]

Yes, white labs service sucks. I bought a pack from my local shop, got it home to make a starter and noticed the inner pouch was split open. Looked like it happened when sealing, so I called them to let them know. They said thanks for the call and that they'd send out a replacement...that was 2 months ago. It was a witbier yeast, so no special strain or anything. I've given up on the replacement showing up or ever contacting them again. I'll also be looking at other yeast options, but my local shop really only carries white labs and dry yeast. They are trying to carry Jasper, but I think it's still hit or miss (mostly miss) on them having that stuff

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I've had good some success with dealing with their customer service. On my last ship home I got 1x a 6 month old vial, also a platinum release, and 2 vials that had 2 std dev below the average cell counts* (33 and 27B). It took about a month, and quite a few emails, but I eventually got ahold of someone/annoyed enough of them, to get a response and some free yeast coupons. I sent an email to a new person once a week until I got a response. I also ended up "encouraging" them to update their FAQ on the website, and the description on the purepitch packages (volume and some clearer wording).

*according to some data I pulled from their yeast man website.

 

[Lost_Arkitekt]

I got a response...just not a very good one. Then to throw the distributor under the bus is just ridiculous.

They say that these new packages keep viability up to 90% for six months. Not sure I believe that.

Going back and forth to the rep at the distributor got me two replacement vials (just got that email). Seriously, though...that still doesn't explain why you would manufacture a Platinum series yeast in January when you aren't going to release it until May. To me...that is just plain wrong.

Losing a month due to packaging (multiple vials/packs) for the distributor, shipping, getting to the distributor, that being processed and repackaged for the LHBS and then it finally getting there makes perfect sense to me. It seems a little long, but still...understandable. The former scenario of packing yeast 4 months in advance makes ZERO sense to me, and I think White Labs should address that on their social media outlets...and recall it all.

 

[Bobby_M]

This is why retailers should deal directly with the labs. Wyeast won't deal with distributors. Too many middlemen and handling delays.

 

[Lost_Arkitekt]

Bobby...thanks for weighing in. I've bought plenty from you! Haha.

C'mon...you can't always blame the distributor. White Labs ****ed up. Regardless of going through the distributor, you don't produce a yeast 4 months ahead of the release time. That's just bad...on many levels. Then, to throw the distributor under the bus... (getting a May release yeast on May 6th isn't that big of a deal). The retailer ordered from a distributor on May 15th and got it on the 18th. Again...reasonable.

The above scenarios would have happened even if dealing directly with Wyeast. If LHBS doesn't stock a certain yeast and they "order" it from Wyeast for me...gonna be a few days. When I go into my LHBS to get yeast and it is 4 mos old...probably because no one bought that yeast. That is now between me and LHBS. If they order a yeast from Wyeast, and they send them 4 month old yeast, that is unacceptable.

If Wyeast was only selling a certain strain during May/June and made it in January, I'd say that is super ****ty. They, in turn, couldn't throw a distributor under the bus because they don't have them... If they told me or my LHBS that it was a "typo" when it really wasn't, I'd be as livid as I am now.

I use this analogy. If your wedding was in May, and you contracted someone to bake your wedding cake, you'd probably sue them if they made your cake in January and served it at your wedding. What wedding cake baker would do that? So, if you are waiting for a yeast to come out that was only to be sold in May/June, you'd expect them to start propagating the yeast in mid/late April...distributor or not.

 

[Bobby_M]

I don't deal with white labs but I imagine they start packaging ahead of time because of the distributor to retailer model.

 

[Jaybird]

I use this analogy. If your wedding was in May, and you contracted someone to bake your wedding cake, you'd probably sue them if they made your cake in January and served it at your wedding. What wedding cake baker would do that? So, if you are waiting for a yeast to come out that was only to be sold in May/June, you'd expect them to start propagating the yeast in mid/late April...distributor or not.

Good analogy man!

Cheers
Jay

 

[secondbase]

I contacted White Labs about receiving warm yeast from the Yeast Vault shipment (pre-ordered in December, not realizing it would be 100º when they shipped them) asking them if they planned on taking extra care to ensure the yeast was alive and well upon arrival. Their reply was that the way they package they cannot add more than one ice pack per vial.

I cancelled my pre-ordered vault strains. If you can't ensure that my yeast will not die after sitting on a hot mail truck for half a day and possibly in my mailbox on a 100º day, I don't care to give you my business. Wyeast offerings are generally better anyway (and the brett/bacteria from Wyeast aren't contaminated with Sacch).

 

[madscientist451]

I
They say that these new packages keep viability up to 90% for six months. Not sure I believe that.

Did you get a chance to use the yeast?

 

[Lost_Arkitekt]

I contacted White Labs about receiving warm yeast from the Yeast Vault shipment (pre-ordered in December, not realizing it would be 100º when they shipped them) asking them if they planned on taking extra care to ensure the yeast was alive and well upon arrival. Their reply was that the way they package they cannot add more than one ice pack per vial.

I cancelled my pre-ordered vault strains. If you can't ensure that my yeast will not die after sitting on a hot mail truck for half a day and possibly in my mailbox on a 100º day, I don't care to give you my business. Wyeast offerings are generally better anyway (and the brett/bacteria from Wyeast aren't contaminated with Sacch).

Yeah...I found that them saying "We can't help what the distributor does..." and "that was a typo" (when it wasn't), is just terrible customer service. We all make mistakes...so just own them. Put a recall out via LHBS/Facebook/Twitter, etc., and give folks fresh yeast.

Did you get a chance to use the yeast?

I was waiting till this got worked out, so no. They are finally going to send new yeast, but with all that has happened, I wonder if it will be the same as the stuff I already have...manufactured in January. It wouldn't surprise me.

The worst part is that I was going to do the Brulosopher's exBEERiment and brew one carboy with Wit I and the other with Wit II. Now, by the time I get the new Wit II, the Wit I will be getting old. I can't win.

Also, I made a starter off a yeast I had that was manufactured on December 23. By the time I made it (two weeks ago), the viability was 36%. It was for a RIS, and I had to make a 1.5L step and then a final 3.5L starter. However, that was my fault for waiting so long.

 

[jmcquesten]

Yeah...I found that them saying "We can't help what the distributor does..." and "that was a typo" (when it wasn't), is just terrible customer service. We all make mistakes...so just own them. Put a recall out via LHBS/Facebook/Twitter, etc., and give folks fresh yeast.




I was waiting till this got worked out, so no. They are finally going to send new yeast, but with all that has happened, I wonder if it will be the same as the stuff I already have...manufactured in January. It wouldn't surprise me.

The worst part is that I was going to do the Brulosopher's exBEERiment and brew one carboy with Wit I and the other with Wit II. Now, by the time I get the new Wit II, the Wit I will be getting old. I can't win.

Also, I made a starter off a yeast I had that was manufactured on December 23. By the time I made it (two weeks ago), the viability was 36%. It was for a RIS, and I had to make a 1.5L step and then a final 3.5L starter. However, that was my fault for waiting so long.

How are you checking the viability? Are you doing a count or just using the date?

 

[Lost_Arkitekt]

I don't have a hemocytometer and/or microscope, so I throw caution to the wind and use a yeast calculator. I'm trusting that there really is a 100 billion cells at the start, but I've heard that my assumption isn't always the case...a lot of time less than that.

 

[UndeadFred]

This is why you always make a starter. But yeah.. they probably don't want to deal with us little guys anymore. Their thought is probably that the retailer should eat the bad packs. And this is why yeast is $9 a pack at a LHBS.

My thought is for you to get even with them and make 10 freaking batches with that one pack! Go for it dude... plan accordingly...

 

[AK7007]

Truth be told, White Labs/Yeast Bay provide a product with a low enough cell count that you should not be concerned with the age of vials/packs. They are just providing you with the "seed" to get your desired yeast starter growing without having to build up from a slant/plate. Put a small portion of the vial/pack into a 100-250ml starter, and then pitch that into whatever size starter your favorite calculator tells you to.

I only use White Labs products as a source for strains to bank myself. Their customer service is responsive enough, but they can't actually fix any problems for you, they can just give you coupons. They have a HUGE library of strains, and lots of things you can't get elsewhere, but I've found contamination a few times in their products and don't really feel the need to directly put them into my wort/starter before observing what comes up on plates. They are just where I get strains I want, not providing yeast for me to pitch. I build up starters from plates when I am sure that I've got a pure culture.

I don't work in the industry, but I would HIGHLY encourage people to migrate to Wyeast or Imperial Organic for yeast you intend on pitching directly into wort. Wyeast provide solid products (from counting under the scope, it seems like they give you north of 100 billion cells), and Imperial is selling you actual pitchable amounts. (over 200 billion on the packaging date) I haven't observed any contamination with their stuff.

Yeast is worth buying online if you know which stores to order from/are close. The turnover rate for online retailers means that you are getting much fresher yeast. For me, MoreBeer ends up being the preferred place since I'm in the bay and they are reliable about "sandwiching" yeast packages with ice packs. The only store that has messed up my ice pack was Adventures in Homebrewing - I think I caught them on spring break and they were working with a skeleton crew, but now I know not to order yeast from them.

 

[UndeadFred]

One other comment.. if you make starters and use a calculator you can get to equivalent cell counts after one step with both packs. Yeah it's a guesstimate but in reality it is probably good enough to do your experiment. I'd get to making the starter and brewing, both packs are still viable and you can adjust cell counts but carefully making starters and splitting them according to the calculated amounts.