What is your ratio of keepers vs dumpers?

[seatazzz]

I've only ever dumped batches that weren't "technically" good (i.e., horrible off flavors, infections, etc.). If a batch is done right, no off flavors, I'll drink it even if it's not something I particularly like. There have been a few that I've dumped the last gallon or so because it wasn't quite what I wanted, and something better was ready to tap.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I've only dumped two brews out of about 30 batches. Both were tasty but then circumstances caused issues. One was in my kegerator on my screen porch and a kid turned off the outlet strip the kegerator was plugged into. It went through a week's worth of summer heat/cool cycles and got a strong diacetyl flavor. The other had the CO2 run out and, after re-carbing, was never the same. Too bad because it was a tasty brut IPA.

So far, every batch, from the beginning, has been better than 80% of the beer I can buy at the store or at most regional breweries. I've not yet surpassed Topping Goliath, Pulpit Rock or Barntown, but pretty much everyone else is in line with, or below, what I'm brewing.

 

[OnePlate]

I brew 5L batches so if I decide after a couple bottles I don't like the recipe, I can dump the remaining bottles without any bad feelings about waste and whatnot. Learning what hops I absolutely do NOT like (i'm looking at YOU, Fuggles) is much more painless this way. Small batches also make the keeper recipes go fast but my quick turnover means I can fine tune those recipes quickly and I LOVE the process of brewing.

 

[bleme]

I brew 5L batches so if I decide after a couple bottles I don't like the recipe, I can dump the remaining bottles without any bad feelings about waste and whatnot. Learning what hops I absolutely do NOT like (i'm looking at YOU, Fuggles) is much more painless this way. Small batches also make the keeper recipes go fast but my quick turnover means I can fine tune those recipes quickly and I LOVE the process of brewing.

I haven't done a 1-gallon batch in a few years but they definitely speed up the learning curve!

 

[brewNYC]

I agree with most on this post. I started with 1 gallon extract recipe kits. Everything went well so I started doing complicated stuff like Belgian quads, lagers, etc, which was a mistake. Some turned out good, some turned out great, about half were god-awful dumpers, and I never knew why. I found that I was making 4 mistakes.

1. I was brewing what I liked to drink best, not what I had the skill and equipment to pull off. Lagers need perfect temperature control. Dry hopped ipa’s are a learning curve. Quads require some experience getting predictable attenuation and figuring out how to bottle condition high abv brews. If a beer costs $25 a pop at Whole Foods, it is probably hard to make. Chances are, you need to do some research before trying to brew a clone recipe in your apartment.

2. I changed too much too fast, with too little research. Once I went back to simple ipa and stout recipe kits everything was great. I then started making slow steps from this point (try a different yeast, OR oak chips, OR a higher abv NOT all at the same time). Small changes allow you focus on learning one thing at a time, and learning it well.

3. I was too cheap/lazy. If something gets dirty or infected, spend the time to clean it. If something seems off across multiple batches, assume you have an infection and clean/toss accordingly. If ingredients are old, toss them. If you don’t have time to make a starter, buy 2 packs of yeast. Others may disagree on this, but saving a bit of $ or prep time just isn’t worth drinking infected, under-pitched, or otherwise sub-par beer that makes you question your skills as a brewer.

4. I was too impatient. Anything over 7 percent abv needs to age awhile. I find it helpful to do a 1-gallon trial run of big/complex beers. 1-gallon carboys can be stuck in a corner for a few months while you brew another session beer in your main equipment. If the 1-gallon batch turned out great, it may be worth tying up your 5-gallon carboy for a couple of months..



Learn to like simple beers. If you want to imitate high-end beers, move that way slowly over a lot of batches and research like a PhD student along the way.. Oh and the-read “how to brew” by Palmer about 2x per year.

 

[SaintSwitch]

Ive done about 10 batches now, all of these were all-grain and almost all using the same recipe (IPA). Most taste roughly the same and I've never had to dump any. I even got an infection in one batch but it did not have a massive effect on the taste (slightly more sour than previous batches).

That said I experimented with a Coopers IPA kit and I am sure I either messed something up or the yeast was no good but it was undrinkable. This is the only batch I have ever dumped and I am never going to cheat again.

 

[bethshef]

My brews drastically improved when I moved my fermentation to a room with stable temperatures. When the fermenter was in the kitchen, next to the heating vent and beside my oven, the brews had off flavors and were mediocre at best. One simple change may make all the difference. Don't give up if you really enjoy brewing. As for dumping, I may have dumped part of a batch. Now with wine, I've had to dump a couple of peach batches. Everything else has been drinkable. Sad because I love peach wine; but that is another forum.

 

[kh54s10]

I agree with most on this post. I started with 1 gallon extract recipe kits. Everything went well so I started doing complicated stuff like Belgian quads, lagers, etc, which was a mistake. Some turned out good, some turned out great, about half were god-awful dumpers, and I never knew why. I found that I was making 4 mistakes.

1. I was brewing what I liked to drink best, not what I had the skill and equipment to pull off. Lagers need perfect temperature control. Dry hopped ipa’s are a learning curve. Quads require some experience getting predictable attenuation and figuring out how to bottle condition high abv brews. If a beer costs $25 a pop at Whole Foods, it is probably hard to make. Chances are, you need to do some research before trying to brew a clone recipe in your apartment.

2. I changed too much too fast, with too little research. Once I went back to simple ipa and stout recipe kits everything was great. I then started making slow steps from this point (try a different yeast, OR oak chips, OR a higher abv NOT all at the same time). Small changes allow you focus on learning one thing at a time, and learning it well.

3. I was too cheap/lazy. If something gets dirty or infected, spend the time to clean it. If something seems off across multiple batches, assume you have an infection and clean/toss accordingly. If ingredients are old, toss them. If you don’t have time to make a starter, buy 2 packs of yeast. Others may disagree on this, but saving a bit of $ or prep time just isn’t worth drinking infected, under-pitched, or otherwise sub-par beer that makes you question your skills as a brewer.

4. I was too impatient. Anything over 7 percent abv needs to age awhile. I find it helpful to do a 1-gallon trial run of big/complex beers. 1-gallon carboys can be stuck in a corner for a few months while you brew another session beer in your main equipment. If the 1-gallon batch turned out great, it may be worth tying up your 5-gallon carboy for a couple of months..





Learn to like simple beers. If you want to imitate high-end beers, move that way slowly over a lot of batches and research like a PhD student along the way.. Oh and the-read “how to brew” by Palmer about 2x per year.

Some of what you did caused problems. But it doesn't take a lot of simple beers to become a decent brewer. It just takes some learning and care of the details of brewing.

My first 4 were extracts. An Irish Red Ale, a Patersbier, an Extra Pale Ale and an Nut Brown ale. The next 4 were partial mash brews. A Belgian Dubbel, A Speckled Heifer kit, Then the next 2 were my own recipes, an Amber ale and a pale ale. From there I went to all grain. I have brewed about every style except NEIPA, Sours and Barleywines. I have had only 2 dumpers - both extreme experiments.

The smallest beer I have brewed was about 3 gallons. I am not going to waste my time doing only one gallon. If I do a good one I would be pissed that I only got 10 bottles of it...... and since almost all of my beers have been quite good I am not really risking much with the larger batches.

You also don't need to tie up a carboy for a couple months. You should be able to package in 2 maybe 4 weeks for most styles. Then age in bottles or kegs.

I also have never read "How to Brew", though I have read tons online and several other books.

 

[brewNYC]

Some of what you did caused problems. But it doesn't take a lot of simple beers to become a decent brewer. It just takes some learning and care of the details of brewing.

My first 4 were extracts. An Irish Red Ale, a Patersbier, an Extra Pale Ale and an Nut Brown ale. The next 4 were partial mash brews. A Belgian Dubbel, A Speckled Heifer kit, Then the next 2 were my own recipes, an Amber ale and a pale ale. From there I went to all grain. I have brewed about every style except NEIPA, Sours and Barleywines. I have had only 2 dumpers - both extreme experiments.

The smallest beer I have brewed was about 3 gallons. I am not going to waste my time doing only one gallon. If I do a good one I would be pissed that I only got 10 bottles of it...... and since almost all of my beers have been quite good I am not really risking much with the larger batches.

You also don't need to tie up a carboy for a couple months. You should be able to package in 2 maybe 4 weeks for most styles. Then age in bottles or kegs.

I also have never read "How to Brew", though I have read tons online and several other books.

 

[passedpawn]

I"m at about 95% (or better) I think. I don't get infections, but I occasionally get a soapy taste in IPAs, I think from dry-hopping old hops. Dump those suckers.

 

[brewNYC]

I agree, you do not need to brew a lot of simple beers to become a decent brewer. Based on my experience in my home brew club, it’s impossible to say what a “decent beer” is, though. Some people are happy with anything that has alcohol in it, some value really creative recipes and don’t worry much if they turn out a little funky. Most shoot for the kind of beer you can buy in the craft beer section of the grocery store, and are happy with making it, or at least getting close. Others love a certain style and hate everything else..

I noticed that the person who started this thread indicated that they only drink beers that rank in the top 20 percent on beersmith, and expect their home brews to taste the same way. I read this as the kind of stuff that only comes in 750ml bottles and has a high price tag. If you are going to compete with the best of the pros, I think you have to be kind of obsessive and methodical to get there (that’s what I tell myself anyway, cause I’m not there yet). My point was to take it easy on yourself. Be happy brewing decent, normal beer for awhile, but if you want to meet an unusually high standard, patience and discipline are the key.

 

[BobBailey]

Been brewing for about 11 years without a dumper. The first couple of can & kilo, pre hopped extract batches were pretty nasty, but I had an abundance of bottles, so let them age for a couple of months. They both turned out to be quite drinkable. Also had a self dumper when a hose popped off of my wort chiller and overflowed the kettle for about 1/2 hour before I discovered it.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

I can only remember these dumpers:
Ed Wort's Haus Pale. During fermentation, my heater neglected to shut off at the set temp resulting in a 90+ degree fermentation temp.

Another was due to an old pale ale extract kit a buddy asked me to brew for us for a snowmobiling trip. I replaced the hops and yeast, kept the grains and extract. We drank part of the keg but I didn't like it and dumped the rest after our tip.

Also made some hard apple cider that tasted like rocket fuel. Made it through a few bottles but got worse as it aged. Dumped most bottles.

Probably a couple others from my extract days, but I typically drink what I make even if it isn't my favorite.
I have brewed a lot of different styles and have a couple of my own recipes that I rebrew to make improvements.
I also mainly brew 3 gallon batches to I can better balance my intake, my brewing schedule and desire for different brews.

 

[Nagorg]

FWIW... I may be dumping the second keg of an IPA I brewed about 3 months ago. The first keg was good but the second one is starting to take on some wet cardboard notes. It must be oxidized from the cold crash I did. Lesson learned... I'll remedy the O2 exposure problem or just stop cold crashing. I cant say I've noticed it making that big of an impact in the first place.

 

[dmtaylor]

I keep detailed lists of every batch ever made. I can honestly factually tell you that out of the past 120 batches, 18 batches were dumped, which is 15%. So the other 85% were keepers.

Of the keepers, I can tell you 76% are good recipes, 24% I probably won't brew again, and 26% were fantastic to the point that I would consider them to be "flagship" beers.

 

[kh54s10]

I keep detailed lists of every batch ever made. I can honestly factually tell you that out of the past 120 batches, 18 batches were dumped, which is 15%. So the other 85% were keepers.

Of the keepers, I can tell you 76% are good recipes, 24% I probably won't brew again, and 26% were fantastic to the point that I would consider them to be "flagship" beers.

Have you figured out why you have such a large percentage of dumpers? Just super critical?

My 2 dumpers out of 107 gives a percentage of 1.869 Of the rest only a couple were not so good. Most were very good and a few were great.

 

[dmtaylor]

Have you figured out why you have such a large percentage of dumpers? Just super critical?

Mostly laziness. I brew a batch then forget to package it for 6 months, and by then it's oxidized or worse. This was more a problem for me several years ago, and not so much anymore. I haven't dumped a batch at all for 2 or 3 years now. Used to happen every few batches it seemed but not anymore.

And also, yes... I am my own worst critic. I think some of my beers suck, then when entered into competition they sometimes medal anyway. And vice-versa, some of my favorites don't score well at all but I'm fine with that too. Taste is so subjective but in the end we need to make our own selves happy and no one else, and.... Life is too short to force ourselves to drink less than stellar beer. Occasionally I'll dump a slightly less than mediocre batch just because no one wants to drink it in lieu of the tons of other stuff I have available. No need to force anything down, it's not that important, I've always got plenty of better beer laying around to drink instead.

So... a little bit of all of the above, I guess.

 

[greywolf]

I have only dumped one. A pale ale that reeked of grapefruit pith. Probably wasn't that bad but I forced one down every night and just wasn't into it. I had an unintentional sour that wasn't good but I got thru it.

 

[cswant88]

Only batch I've ever dumped was shortly after I moved to all grain. I had an itch to brew, but didn't feel like going to the LHBS. I gathered a lot leftover ingredients from other batches and made a 3 gallon freestyle brew. My grain bill was mainly a smorgasbord of specialty malts, lol. You can probably imagine how it turned out, and if you can't, I'll just tell you...it was terrible.

 

[beernutz]

I had a pretty long streak of no dumpers but that ended with my last batch. The previous dumper was in May 2014 so a 5+ year hitting streak was lost.

FWIW, the 5 gallon keg getting dumped was half of a 10 gallon separately fermented batch where I dry hopped one with Amarillo whole leaf and the other with Amarillo pellets.

I got caught up in other things and left the dry hops on the beer for about 21 of the 28 days they were in the primary and the pelleted one had green mold over the top when I went to keg it.

Both fermenters got kegged but after a couple weeks of cold conditioning only the whole leaf one was drinkable. Que sera...

 

[troglodytes]

In the 8-9 years I've been brewing, I've only dumped 2 out of probably around 40 batches. I would have dumped 2 additional batches if left up to me but my father in law insisted that he like them so he ended up taking them off my hands. So I would say I'm ecstatic with about 25% of the batches, enjoy about 65%, and dislike or hate about 10%.

 

[balrog]

left the dry hops on the beer for about 21 of the 28 days they were in the primary and the pelleted one had green mold over the top when I went to keg it.

See, now this is what I keep wondering--why don't we hear more about dry hopping infecting beer? I mean, we're told to sanitize tubing, siphons, spoons, but not dry hops. This is the kind of thing that keeps me up at night.

 

[RPh_Guy]

See, now this is what I keep wondering--why don't we hear more about dry hopping infecting beer? I mean, we're told to sanitize tubing, siphons, spoons, but not dry hops. This is the kind of thing that keeps me up at night.

I wonder that too.
I suspect microbes are killed during the drying process. Maybe from heat or radiation, not sure.

 

[balrog]

Da Google showed a BYO article which essentially says they are naturally antibacterial by nature, and if added to active ferm then yeast are hard to compete with, and added after ferm, then ph and alcohol repress bacterials; but do sanitize any bag used or marbles.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Hops are anti-microbial. Many LAB species can't stand but a couple IBUs in wort/beer, let alone grow on a hop pellet.

With *wet hops* dry hopping, yeah infection can be a concern.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hops are anti-microbial. Many LAB species can't stand but a couple IBUs in wort/beer, let alone grow on a hop pellet.

With *wet hops* dry hopping, yeah infection can be a concern.

So exactly why can't bacteria grow on a pellet hop vs a fresh hop?

Also, hops don't inhibit yeast, so why no wild yeast contamination?

 

[Qhrumphf]

So exactly why can't bacteria grow on a pellet hop vs a fresh hop?

Also, hops don't inhibit yeast, so why no wild yeast contamination?

With wet hops it's increased water content, that much I know. And I'd expect wild yeast more than lactic bacteria. But those are the only hop-related infections I've ever heard of.

I imagine this something similar to honey (plus an antimicrobial factor)- organisms won't grow in honey since there's not enough water, but as soon as it's diluted they can grow. Speculation on my part though.

As far as yeast vs LAB, don't know. There's obviously something going on. But I know lactic bacteria in particular are very hop sensitive.

 

[beernutz]

FWIW, there was no visible mold in the fermenter when the Amarillo dry hop pellets went in at the 7 day primary mark but there was when I kegged at 28 days. There probably was mold earlier but I never checked on the beer.

These pellet hops had been vacuum sealed and kept in a freezer until just prior to adding them directly (no bag or container) to a big mouth bubbler which I have used for years.

The other half of the batch was in a different big mouth bubbler which I dry hopped with Amarillo whole leaf by adding them directly into the beer from a previously unopened package. It had no mold and tastes fine.

So same beer batch, same fermentation chest freezer, same yeast, same type big mouth bubbler fermenters, but different type dry hops both added directly to the fermenters. One developed mold and the other was fine.

I am not a microbiologist but what I saw appeared to me to be mold. It was light green and covered the entire top of the beer in the fermenter. The beer tasted like dirt, not that I'm an expert on that either.

 

[bracconiere]

lol, i figure this is why, when i tried sanitizing my fermenter instead of just pasteurizing.....i got a bunch of sours, (which i drank anyway)....ever since i was told, put it out in the sunlight, and haven't sanitized again....no sour beer....

kinda like growing white button mushrooms...pasteurize the compost, definitely don't sterilize it....

 

[troglodytes]

lol, i figure this is why, when i tried sanitizing my fermenter instead of just pasteurizing.....i got a bunch of sours, (which i drank anyway)....ever since i was told, put it out in the sunlight, and haven't sanitized again....no sour beer....

kinda like growing white button mushrooms...pasteurize the compost, definitely don't sterilize it....

Wait what is this about sunlight pasteurizing fermenters? I have a speidel that I'd love to ensure remains bug free, but don't wait to scrub with anything and risk scratching. I'm currently cleaning with PBW and then sanitizing

 

[bracconiere]

Wait what is this about sunlight pasteurizing fermenters? I have a speidel that I'd love to ensure remains bug free, but don't wait to scrub with anything and risk scratching. I'm currently cleaning with PBW and then sanitizing

the sunlight doesn't pasteurize it, my sparge water does...i fill it up with 10 gals 180f water put the lid on, wait for the mash to finish...but i figure the open air and sunlight is what restored my 'natural' biome....

edit: kinda how your natural gut bacteria fight off stuff, and when you take antibiotics you're vulnerable....

 

[troglodytes]

Oh interesting. I might amend my process next time. I usually don't even pull out my fermenter for sanitizing until half way through the boil. Now just to make sure the HDPE plastic can handle that temp without repercussion.

 

[RPh_Guy]

With wet hops it's increased water content, that much I know. And I'd expect wild yeast more than lactic bacteria. But those are the only hop-related infections I've ever heard of.

I imagine this something similar to honey (plus an antimicrobial factor)- organisms won't grow in honey since there's not enough water, but as soon as it's diluted they can grow. Speculation on my part though.

As far as yeast vs LAB, don't know. There's obviously something going on. But I know lactic bacteria in particular are very hop sensitive.

I don't know either, and that bugs me.

Unless some part of the drying, pelletization, or packaging process actually kills microbes, I would fully expect lots of wild yeast, some mold, and occasional bacterial contaminations.

EDIT: It occurred to me that perhaps the crops are heavily sprayed with fungicide.

@beernutz FYI mold only grows in the presence of oxygen.

 

[dmtaylor]

See, now this is what I keep wondering--why don't we hear more about dry hopping infecting beer? I mean, we're told to sanitize tubing, siphons, spoons, but not dry hops. This is the kind of thing that keeps me up at night.

I've gotten contamination from dry hops before. Now I soak mine in an ounce or two of vodka then add the "dry hop paste" to the fermenter.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Well, probably in the hundreds dumpers to 1 keeper. I got rid of all the rest and kept my latest, been married since '97.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Well, probably in the hundreds dumpers to 1 keeper. I got rid of all the rest and kept my latest, been married since '97.

You got dumped hundreds of times??

Oh, it was probably "mutual".

But seriously, congrats.

 

[BruceH]

No dumpers, plenty of blenders.

I'm still learning with every brew. Some are pretty good on their own. Some get blended with a commercial beer when I drink them.

 

[Soulshine2]

When compared to commercial examples - being as good as the pros, what's your ratio of the recipes you keep because they're really good versus the failures i.e. the dumps/meh/won't do that again?

I've brewed about 50 different batches of beer. Out of those 50 I have about 5 recipes I've concocted that I would keep and brew again and do as a flagship line up in a fantasy brewery. I think that's pretty poor averages, but maybe it's normal compared to everyone.

I brewed what I thought was going to be an absolutely amazing NE IPA (based on an IA Wrench clone), and had one bottle that was decent but a little soapy, and another bottle that was pure sulfur. Not sure what to think about it. Sometimes I can't get anything right, and I get sick of wasting ingredients because my IPAs taste either soapy or astringent, and aren't smooth, soft, or sweet. Just wondering if my batting average is...well, average, or if it's piss poor.

Cheers

12- 1 . I made an American Honey Brown Ale that i wish had turned out better. The rest would be "do agains"

 

[brewbama]

I started brewing in the 90(s), then laid off, and picked back up in 13. I have a few more than 100 batches since 13. I have had two dumpers in that 100 for infection (discovered a bad o-ring just a bit too late), and one because I didn’t like the beer (a Flanders Red). I call that a 97-98% success rate depending on how you treat the Red.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

First, credit to OP for the clickbait title that dragged all of us without many "dumpers" into this thread.

I haven't dumped a beer since about 2008. That was due to an acetobacter infection when I used a fermenter that wasn't properly sealed (at my former brother-in-law's house) and fruit flies attacked it. I don't know what it is about fruit flies, but they LOVE the smell of fermenting rye.

Since then nothing has been dump-worthy. Probably the weakest of the group was a Gose that I tried [unsuccessfully] to kettle-sour, and then I ended up souring it with lactic acid. But it wasn't dump-worthy.

Now, as to the question about recipes. I make my own recipes and I certainly have a few "flagships" in there. As for recipe creation, that's one area where I feel some people have "it" and others don't. I view it as the difference between a good cook and a chef. A cook can faithfully reproduce a great recipe. A chef can create a recipe. I rarely strike out on a recipe because I understand the ingredients and can put the recipe together where I know before I brew it what it will taste like, and I'm rarely off. But I don't consider recipe creation to be all that important for a homebrewer--as long as you identify recipes that make good beer, and brew them well, it doesn't matter if they're your own.