Water Report Advice

[premington]

A friend received his Ward Labs water report. We've been having problems with fermentations that stop very early and have been wondering if perhaps it's his water. Can people share their impressions about this report?

pH: 7.9
Total dissolved solids: 195
Electrical conductivity: 0.32
Cations/anions: 3.4/3.2

* The following numbers are in PPM:
Sodium: 16
Potassium: 2
Calcium: 37.5
Magnesium: 10
Total hardness: 137
Nitrate: 0.3 ppm
Sulfate: 8 ppm
Chloride: 26 ppm
Carbonate: <1.0
Bicarbonate: 115
Total alkalinity: 95
Total phosphorus: 0.01
Total iron: <0.01

Thanks for the help!

 

[Yooper]

No, stalled fermentations wouldn't be due to the water. The water is ok for brewing, but likely needs a bit of acid in most mashes to get a desirable mash pH, but that's true of most tap waters for most of us.
Stalled fermentations would be due to a high mash temp, yeast health, cold temperatures, etc.

What happens when your fermentations stop early- a too high FG?

 

[Dgallo]

^great advice. I would also add to make sure you’re checking your fg with a hydrometer and not a refractometer, alcohol skews refractometer readings.

 

[premington]

No, stalled fermentations wouldn't be due to the water. The water is ok for brewing, but likely needs a bit of acid in most mashes to get a desirable mash pH, but that's true of most tap waters for most of us.
Stalled fermentations would be due to a high mash temp, yeast health, cold temperatures, etc.

What happens when your fermentations stop early- a too high FG?

Thanks for the replies!

Yes... Too high a FG. Most times, the fermentation stops at about 2% or 3% alcohol. We use a refractometer, but use an online calculator to adjust for alcohol. This only seems to be happening at my friend's home, and I'm not there to monitor the fermentation, so I can't provide too much detail, unfortunately. The ambient temp in his brewing area is typically in the mid-60s (F). We use yeast nutrient, oxygenate before pitching the yeast, and create a yeast starter on a spin plate. I've even selected yeasts that tolerate higher temp ferments, in case anaerobic activity is popping the temp above 70F. So I'm not sure what the problem is.

I was concerned maybe there was chloramine in his water, since his water supply is different than mine (I have chlorine). I filter my water, so all my fermentations ferment out fine--I don't need to cut my water with bottled water. His fermentations, for some reason, always seem to stick. We've tried using Poland Springs and cutting the municipal water 1/2 with bottled water... same results. We follow the exact same process as my brews, since we often brew together, so I'm not sure why his fermentations get stuck.

But it's nice to know his water appears okay, based on the water report. I did notice the bicarbonate amount is 118. I usually add lactic acid to my lighter beers to reduce some of the buffering capacity during the mash. I'll bring the water pH down to about 6 before mash (not sparge). Always have had good results.

Very much appreciate the feedback folks!

 

[dwhite60]

^great advice. I would also add to make sure you’re checking your fg with a hydrometer and not a refractometer, alcohol skews refractometer readings.

Thanks for the replies!

Yes... Too high a FG. Most times, the fermentation stops at about 2% or 3% alcohol. We use a refractometer, but use an online calculator to adjust for alcohol.

Found out yesterday my online refractometer converter is five points off, too low. My hydrometer reads 5 points higher. Still will use it to check if fermentation has stopped. No gravity change is no gravity change regardless of the tool.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Miraculix]

Please check with a hydrometer. The correction factor is not linear or universal and can vary. I'll bet your results are actually heavily distorted and there is nothing wrong with the beer.

 

[Dgallo]

No gravity change is no gravity change regardless of the tool.

All the Best,
D. White

True but I was getting to the point that the op didn’t use a correction and as @Miraculix stated that a Refractometer correction isn’t guaranteed with accuracy. So his beer could be finished within typical range

 

[IslandLizard]

^ All that!

Yes, use a calibrated hydrometer for FG readings.

If source water chlorination or chloraminization is suspected (pretty much all municipal water in the U.S.), treat all your brewing water with 1/4 Campden Tablet per 5 gallons, or the equivalent when using Na-Meta or K-Meta powder. Only a small amount is needed, like 80 mg or so. Beats charcoal filtering in every respect.

Does his mid 60s drop to low 60s at times, such as at night? That cold cause a yeast to stall before it's done, depending on the yeast.

You need a good idea of prevailing temps in your friend's home's fermentation area.

 

[premington]

Please check with a hydrometer. The correction factor is not linear or universal and can vary. I'll bet your results are actually heavily distorted and there is nothing wrong with the beer.

I wish that were the case. You can slam three or four of these beers and feel just about nothing... and it's curiously sweet. If we brew the beer at his home, it's sweet and pretty much unfermented. If we brew it at my home, it ferments out and (with a corrective calculator) calculates to a measurable alcohol rate. True, the actual rate is probably off compared to what we're calculating, but it's not sweet, and it'll get you buzzy after a beer or two.

What's strange is, we follow the exact all-grain brewing process whether at my home or his. It just never ferments out when we do it at his home. Even the equipment is the same. The only difference is the water. Well, the water and the person managing the fermentation. He just leaves it alone and lets it ferment until the yeast fall silent. When I ferment, I carefully track the temp and adjust things to maintain a good fermentation temp.

Very strange... I have a hydrometer. We can use that for the next brew. I just wish I could help him nail down why the fermentation stops so early every time.

 

[mabrungard]

The water is fine, but it is possible that the resulting wort isn't as fermentable as expected. That suggests the mashing temp is higher than expected. Check the calibration on thermometers used in assessing mashing temp.

 

[Miraculix]

I wish that were the case. You can slam three or four of these beers and feel just about nothing... and it's curiously sweet. If we brew the beer at his home, it's sweet and pretty much unfermented. If we brew it at my home, it ferments out and (with a corrective calculator) calculates to a measurable alcohol rate. True, the actual rate is probably off compared to what we're calculating, but it's not sweet, and it'll get you buzzy after a beer or two.

What's strange is, we follow the exact all-grain brewing process whether at my home or his. It just never ferments out when we do it at his home. Even the equipment is the same. The only difference is the water. Well, the water and the person managing the fermentation. He just leaves it alone and lets it ferment until the yeast fall silent. When I ferment, I carefully track the temp and adjust things to maintain a good fermentation temp.

Very strange... I have a hydrometer. We can use that for the next brew. I just wish I could help him nail down why the fermentation stops so early every time.

That sounds really strange to me. I have no idea, except the recommended thermometer check up.

Sounds almost like some chemical finds its way into the brew that inhibits the yeast in some way.

 

[premington]

The water is fine, but it is possible that the resulting wort isn't as fermentable as expected. That suggests the mashing temp is higher than expected. Check the calibration on thermometers used in assessing mashing temp.

This is a very good point. Thank you for pointing that out, Martin. Actually... A few years back I purchased two digital thermometers--one for him, and one for me. While we do share the same equipment, we use his thermometer when brewing at his home. Now that you mention this, I'm wondering of perhaps his is reading wrong. That would absolutely explain what's happening, if our mash temp is far too high.

We're doing a chocolate stout in a few weeks. I'll bring my thermometer over, and we'll brew with that and see what happens. <fingers crossed>

 

[premington]

That sounds really strange to me. I have no idea, except the recommended thermometer check up.

Sounds almost like some chemical finds its way into the brew that inhibits the yeast in some way.

Yeah, this has been happening for quite some time now... every beer we've done at his house. I've wracked my brain trying to figure it out, including wondering about anything leaching into the beer that might be affecting the yeast.

We don't share the same fermenter. I have an SS Brewtech conical fermenter. He has a plastic conical. I'm trusting he knows how to use it right. His has a Ball jar at the bottom, which he leaves open during fermentation. I thought perhaps this should be closed during fermentation so all the yeast don't drop into the Ball jar. He insists it remains open. I've always trusted him on this. But does he only need to open it to drop the yeast at the END of fermentation? As long as those yeast cells are in contact with the beer, I can't imagine that could be causing such a dramatic effect to actually stall fermentation.

If anyone has experience with these fermenters, let me know if he should be closing the bottom during fermentation or if it's okay to leave it open. We're willing to try anything, at this point.

 

[Miraculix]

Theoratically, it removes the surface between yeast and beer, but on the other hand, during fermentation, there is so much turbulance within the liquid anyway, I would be surprised if this would be the real reason.