Upgrade from 10 Gal to 25 Gal - Wort Chiller Question

[brennanj11]

Hey Guys,

First time posting on this forum, but i have spent a ton of time stealing all of your awesome advice for the past 3 years. So before I request your advice in this particular situation thank you all for your attention to detail and scientific mind-set, it has inspired me to keep detailed notes and it that has helped me a ton!

I have recently purchased a keggle and am attempting to make the transition from BIAB w/10 Gallon Brew Kettle to a MLT and Keggle setup.

I have a MLT build thanks to this post and will be modifying w/ this Cooler from Walmart.

I am a simple beer drinker and enjoy drinking/sharing a nice hop-floral/taste APA I have tweaked. So the thought of spending 4 hrs brewing that yield 100 beers v. 50 excites me.

One of the things I did not consider to upgrade as well was my wort chiller. It is getting me to my pitch temp in about 30 min for the 10 Gal setup. Any suggestions about modifying my current wort chiller to handle the 15 Gal Keggle? I would like to try to modify what i have over having building a larger one.

Also any other suggestions from experienced brewers who made this tranistion would be much appreciated. Thanks again!

 

[m00ps]

For something like a 25gal kettle, I would think you would be much better off getting a plate or counterflow chiller. I've never seen an immersion chiller that can be adequate for 25gal

 

[grampska]

If it's a keggle it should be 15.5 gallons. The larger size, 50' or 70', immersion chiller should be fine.

I'm in the same boat. I picked up a keggle on Craigslist but I haven't dealt with the chiller yet because my burner is too small too hold it.

 

[beernutz]

My DIY 30' CFC won't get the 10 gallons of wort I produce down to pitching temp during the summer when the tap water temperature is at its highest. For my last lager I went so far as to fill a large storage bucket with ice water and use a pond pump to pump cold water thought my CFC.

However, doing that still only got the wort in to the 60s as the ice water made with 6 frozen 2 liter bottles eventually ran out and the ice melted as new water was added to the bucket.

Especially for lagers I try to get the temp down as cool as I can with the CFC, usually high 70s, then put my fermentation buckets in my fermentation freezer until they get to the appropriate pitching temp which is usually the next morning.

I have never had an infection problem when doing this so far, knock wood.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

One of the things I did not consider to upgrade as well was my wort chiller. It is getting me to my pitch temp in about 30 min for the 10 Gal setup. Any suggestions about modifying my current wort chiller to handle the 25 Gal Keggle? I would like to try to modify what i have over having building a larger one.

So we do need to know if this is a keggle (usable volume about 15 gallons) or a 35 gallon kettle.

For a Keggle I have always used 50' copper immersion chiller and even hooked up the output to my lawn sprinkler to water the grass. In winter, and for the last 10-15 degrees, I use the ice bath and pond pump.

This worked in Oklahoma where summer outside temps were 100+ f on brew day and tap water temps were in the mid 60's. It took a while to get past about 120 F but now that I live in the frozen north...this issue has been eliminated.

Just did a 9 gallon batch last week and failed to make block ice before hand. 9.5 gallons of wort to 180 F took about 10 minute (ground was soaked so did not use the garden hose) to get all the way to 62 F took 46#'s of ice and about 40 minutes but part of my chiller was above the wort level because of my install electric elements.

 

[brennanj11]

Thanks for the input guys,
Sorry for the lack of update on this thread. I am starting to read through CFC builds and am feeling confident I can modify my existing 25' 3/8" Copper Immersion Chiller into a 25' CFC, for better efficiency for the 15.5 Gal Keggle Upgrade. I'll be using Tiber's CFC Build as a starting point.

I'm still scratching my head on how these guys are measuring the temperature of the Wort exiting the CFC, maybe it's an experience thing?
I guess I could test the system w/ Boiling water (wort) and Ice water pumping through the other end and see what temp it gets me. But wouldn't that assume i have the same volume of ice the entire time? I don't know, the whole process has me confused on how this system is realiable and devliers consistent results.

 

[acidrain]

CF's and PC's are extremely efficient and easily controlled. With a large batch like you're talking about (full 15 gallon batch?) I would transfer directly to the FV through the chiller, which is controlled to deliver the exact pitching temp.
Control is made by metering the flow from the BK via pump and valve (you want a high flow, but not so much that it overwhelms the chilling ability of the water supply), and metering the supply water flow while watching the wort output temp.
You should be able to control the temp all the way down to whatever your supply water temp is. If the supply temp is too cold, turn down the supply flow, or turn up the wort flow.
You'll need an in-line temp gauge (Brew Hardware), and for an added bonus, put an in-line oxygen kit at the exit as well.

 

[brennanj11]

CF's and PC's are extremely efficient and easily controlled. With a large batch like you're talking about (full 15 gallon batch?) I would transfer directly to the FV through the chiller, which is controlled to deliver the exact pitching temp.
Control is made by metering the flow from the BK via pump and valve (you want a high flow, but not so much that it overwhelms the chilling ability of the water supply), and metering the supply water flow while watching the wort output temp.

Thank you! Yes 15.5 Gal capacity (about 11 Gal total pitching vol.)
This is exactly what I needed to understand, without the inclusion of a thermometer on the CFC, i'll need to test out the temp after a first run w/ hose-temp water and alter the flow rate or add ice and sumpump.

 

[jrstaples1]

Thank you! Yes 15.5 Gal capacity (about 11 Gal total pitching vol.)
This is exactly what I needed to understand, without the inclusion of a thermometer on the CFC, i'll need to test out the temp after a first run w/ hose-temp water and alter the flow rate or add ice and sumpump.

If I understand you right (if not, just ignore me), you're thinking about building a CFC without a thermometer on the wort output and you would test it before running wort? I would suggest springing for the tee fitting and thermometer, since your ground water temp. (or ice water recirculation) is likely to change throughout the year. In other words you probably couldn't just test it once and get consistent temps after that. If you have a thermometer on the output, you can adjust your hose water and wort flow in "real time" to arrive at exactly the desired pitching temp.

 

[normonster]

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I'm still scratching my head on how these guys are measuring the temperature of the Wort exiting the CFCS......

Does the old Tee fitted with a thermo not work with a CFC? Works great out the bottom of a MT and out the back of a plate chiller.

 

[normonster]

Also, if you have a thermo on your kettle you can always recirculate back to there and cool the whole thing.