Training Wheels Berliner - good intro to sours

[Kealia]

Haha, well played, sir.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I just wanted to post an update on the fastest batch of this I've made to date with 6 lbs DME for 9 gallons total - requires 2x 5 gallon kegs and heat stick.

1) Made yeast starter with 100g / 1L water. Allow to sour for 48 hrs.
2) Add 2 gallons of water to 5 gallon keg, heat to boil with heat stick, add 6 lbs DME - chill to 90F in ice/water bath. This all took <1 hr
3) Add starter after pulling some off for next round, sour for 72 hours at 85F.
4) Chill 7 gallons of water in fridge (unless you have very cool ground water that you don't feel the need to boil)
5a) Pasteurize at 180F for 30 min
5b) Add 2 gallons of pre-chilled water to drop temperature
5c) Transfer 4 gallons to second keg
5d) Top up both kegs with 2.5 gallons of pre-chilled water each
--> Step 5 only took about 15 minutes of hands on effort over about an hour and a half and doing this drastically cut down on the issues I've had in the past with chilling 4.5 gallons of pasteurized wort. The 2 gallon requirement for the souring is based on the amount of water I need to cover my heat stick.

So easy! This will make about 26 gallons I've made this summer. Flavoring with ~1.5lb of frozen raspberries is my favorite so far.

 

[Kealia]

Updating this thread now that the GoodBelly version is being consumed. It's good. And easy to get my hands on GoodBelly but I do think that the Omega Lacto string brings a bit more complexity to the final beer. Or it's my own personal tester-bias that is saying that, who knows. It could be the same way that I would expect a more traditional souring process to bring complexity to the kettle souring we're doing here, too.

In any case, it's good. If I can't get my hands on the Omega yeast, I will use this method again for sure.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Lacto-only sours vs traditional sours with Brett are like night and day. Hugely different.

I doubt different strains of L. plantarum are much different, especially when boiled/pasteurized afterward (which drives away aromatics).

 

[treacheroustexan]

Bumping this again. I’m getting ready to brew some more batches of this! First one up is gonna be with cherry juice!

 

[Localhopper]

So SWMBO really wants me to brew a blackberry sour. Never done it so I want to do it right.

For Simplicity sake, could I add the starter to the kettle, purge with CO2

Then when it’s ready boil it, purge it again and add the normal yeast into the kettle? Do everything in one kettle then just rack straight to a keg on top of blackberries?

My carboys are currently busy so thinking this may be an alternative.

 

[treacheroustexan]

So SWMBO really wants me to brew a blackberry sour. Never done it so I want to do it right.

For Simplicity sake, could I add the starter to the kettle, purge with CO2

Then when it’s ready boil it, purge it again and add the normal yeast into the kettle? Do everything in one kettle then just rack straight to a keg on top of blackberries?

My carboys are currently busy so thinking this may be an alternative.

Yep, this is what I've been doing with excellent results. As long as you can be without your kettle for a few days it works perfectly.

 

[Beer666]

Do I need a full pack of sourpitch to make a starter? I only have about a quarter of a pack left.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Do I need a full pack of sourpitch to make a starter? I only have about a quarter of a pack left.

If your making a buffered starter, Lacto pitch rate isn't very important. If you're not buffering the starter, then it's a little pointless making a starter.
To buffer, add some calcium carbonate.

 

[Beer666]

If your making a buffered starter, Lacto pitch rate isn't very important. If you're not buffering the starter, then it's a little pointless making a starter.
To buffer, add some calcium carbonate.

OK thanks. Ordered the calcium carbonate. Can I keep some to reuse like a yeast starter and is apple juice necessary? Apologies if it already in this thread, only a quarter through it. Really looking forward to trying this out.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah, you can save Lacto for later, but it's not really worth the effort IMO. Probiotic pills are fairly cheap and they save for a very long time in the fridge.

Apple juice is not necessary for a Lacto starter. Wort is fine, with anywhere from 2-20 g/L calcium carbonate.
If you're using DME, you're welcome to replace 10-20% of it with dextrose, but again, that's not needed.
No aeration.

Decant off of the calcium carbonate when you pitch (you don't want it in your beer).

Cheers

 

[Localhopper]

Picked some fresh blackberries getting ready to finish this off

 

[TwistedGray]

Picked some fresh blackberries getting ready to finish this off

My bush needs picking, too : )

 

[Soulshine2]

I think Im going to attempt this in my own blackberry version today...

 

[Localhopper]

Blackberry sour. Little foamy, but otherwise delicious

 

[Beer666]

I made a starter a week ago and have not had time to brew, will it be ok?

Also these Artisan natural flavours are now available in the UK, has anyone used them yet? They do sound ideal.

 

[sfrisby]

I made a starter a week ago and have not had time to brew, will it be ok?

Also these Artisan natural flavours are now available in the UK, has anyone used them yet? They do sound ideal.

Amoretti is now marketing their line of “craft purées” specifically to brew with. Just FYI. Are they actually better to work with beer or just a new way to market an existing product? Honestly don’t know.

 

[Soulshine2]

Blackberry sour. Little foamy, but otherwise delicious

I'll be bottling mine today or tomorrow . Looks very similar to yours. Tastes wonderful so far .

 

[Localhopper]

I'll be bottling mine today or tomorrow . Looks very similar to yours. Tastes wonderful so far .

Nice let’s see a pic of your pint when it’s done. Mines been a hit all around.

 

[Soulshine2]

Nice let’s see a pic of your pint when it’s done. Mines been a hit all around.

I bottled Sunday, I'll be opening one in a couple weeks.

 

[Soulshine2]

Finally , opened a bottle of my Blackberry hibiscus lime berliner weiss (kettle sour ) last night when I got home from work. Its been so hot out and this was a very welcome refreshing brew . Very nice not overbearing blackberry flavor with the other flavors playing backup without making a mess of the flavor profile. Nicely tart without a huge mouth puckering level. ABV is low (no idea ,1.040 gravity before souring) but it turned out to be a very tasty brew.
Thanks to you all for walking me through the souring process.
I have to reiterate that this was a brew made with locally grown wheat, my own homegrown Crystal hops and handpicked homegrown blackberries. and lets not forget the souring was done by Goodbellys.
BTW, before I knew it , I had 3 of them down.

 

[Localhopper]

Finally , opened a bottle of my Blackberry hibiscus lime berliner weiss (kettle sour ) last night when I got home from work. Its been so hot out and this was a very welcome refreshing brew . Very nice not overbearing blackberry flavor with the other flavors playing backup without making a mess of the flavor profile. Nicely tart without a huge mouth puckering level. ABV is low (no idea ,1.040 gravity before souring) but it turned out to be a very tasty brew.
Thanks to you all for walking me through the souring process.
I have to reiterate that this was a brew made with locally grown wheat, my own homegrown Crystal hops and handpicked homegrown blackberries. and lets not forget the souring was done by Goodbellys.
BTW, before I knew it , I had 3 of them down.

Nice work that looks delicious cheers!

 

[kempshark]

Maybe a dumb question, but for those of you purging the headspace in your kettle for kettle souring....is there any type of small set-up maybe using the little 16 gram CO2 cartridges (maybe too small) or something a little larger for those of us that don’t have keg set-ups yet?... just curious...thank you for any replies/ideas

 

[Soulshine2]

Maybe a dumb question, but for those of you purging the headspace in your kettle for kettle souring....is there any type of small set-up maybe using the little 16 gram CO2 cartridges (maybe too small) or something a little larger for those of us that don’t have keg set-ups yet?... just curious...thank you for any replies/ideas

I dont understand the CO2 purge thing everyone subscribes to. keep the lid on the kettle,seal it up with tape. wait 48 hrs.

 

[Kealia]

I contacted the owner of Omega yeast and they don't purge the headspace so I stopped doing it. No issues at all.
Happy to find and post the email exchange with them should anybody want it.

 

[kempshark]

Thanks for the replies....that should make things a little easier...