Touch Panel/PLC Control (moved)

[broncosaurs]

Saw a few starts on PLC touch control but looks as if nothing ever came of them. I just finished changing from gas to an all electric system using temperature controllers (PIDs as beer brew people call them). Being I love to tinker I thought I needed another controler. I started a 6” touch panel /PLC system. Touch screen is a black and white with 5 color white to red back ground. Screen is IP65 for wet hands and wash-down. Most all equipment is from Automation Direct. The system controls a HLT w/ 5500w heater, RIMs w/4000w heater (more on RIMs heater later), Mash Tun w/ 5500w heater and two pumps for liquid transfer and RIMs recirculation. System needs to run on a 30a 240v circuit. I’m finishing up the programing now.

Cost so far is about $850. Missing enclosure($100-200) and one phase angle firing SSR ($15). I’m sure I missed a few more items also.

As time permits I’ll give more info for each part.
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Home/Home

Item Code Qty Short Description Price
EA1-S6MLW 1 TOUCH PANEL 6in STN 320x240 PIXEL 5 COLOR BG WHT/PINK 1, 2 & 3/RED $324.00 $324.00
DV-1000CBL 1 MICRO-GRAPHIC AND DV-1000 CABLE FOR AUTOMATIONDIRECT PLCS, 6 FT $19.00 $19.00
C0-01DD1-D 1 MICRO PLC, 8 DC IN / 6 SINK DC OUT, W/ RETENTIVE MEMORY, REQ 24VDC POWER $99.00 $99.00
C0-01AC 1 1.3AMP AC SYSTEM POWER SUPPLY NO POWER BUDGET $39.00 $39.00
C0-04THM 1 4-CH THERMOCOUPLE INPUT 16-BIT FOR CLICK $149.00 $149.00
WMZS2B30 1 SUPPLEMENTARY PROTECTOR 2 POLE 30A B CURVE $18.00 $18.00
WMZS2B06 1 SUPPLEMENTARY PROTECTOR 2 POLE 6A B CURVE $18.00 $18.00
SC-E1-110VAC 1 CONTACTOR 32A, 110-120VAC COIL, 54mm $37.50 $37.50
GCX1251-120 1 SEL 22mm METAL RED N.O. 120V MNTND 2-POS INC-ILLUM $15.50 $15.50
AD-SSR625-DC-280A 2 SOLID ST RELAY 25A SPST VDC INPUT N.O. 24-280 VAC PANEL MOUNT $17.50 $35.00
RS4N-DE 1 CARD RELAY 5A SPST 4 RLYS 24VDC COIL $29.50 $29.50
70620FR 3 RECPT SGL 20A 250VAC 2-POLE 3-WIRE NEMA L6-20 LOCK BLK NYLON $11.50 $34.50
70620NP 3 PLUG 20A 250VAC 2-POLE 3-WIRE NEMA L6- 20 LOCK BLK/WHT NYLON $8.75 $26.25
THMJ-MPJ 4 T/C CONNECTOR TYPE J CONT TEMP 400F MINI FLAT PIN PANEL JACK 14AWG $5.00 $20.00



$864.25


Pict 1 &2 Old System
Pict 3 Touch Main Screen
Pict 4 Touch 1 of two Timers
Pict 5 PLC w/ T/C inputs

 

[broncosaurs]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f235/bucks-electric-brewery-479895/

Im using a 10" Cmore and DoMore Processor with the brewery on a remote rack thats a 405 base.

From other thread

 

[broncosaurs]

This looks like my first idea before I inherited the MicroLogix! Great build! I really love your use of the SOLO Pids. Did you communicatethrough Modbus\RS485?

muhteeus, the Solo controllers are stand alone on my current control box. The new control box, touch screen, I am working on I programmed the three PID loops into the PLC. I also programmed the PLC outputs to turn the SSRs on/off as a time base output. With the full program running the time base is accurate (1%) running at a time base of 120ms. The new control box will only have a power switch and the touch panel on the front.

I was reading your thread a while back and was sad when you got the Micrologic.

Brad

 

[broncosaurs]

To continue… The PLC runs the whole system, PID loops, SSR control, heater safety lock outs, pumps, and two timers. All temperatures are brought into the PLC using a 4 channel T/C input module. I then filter the temperature to reduce the noise and feed this filtered temp to the PID subroutines I wrote. The % output of the PID is then fed into a time base subroutine. This time base sub will turn on/off the Y outpust of the PLC . The Y output in turn turns on the SSR to power the heater. The time base system works like this, say the time base is 1000ms. At 50% output the heater turns on 500ms, off 500ms. 75% power, on 750ms, off 250ms. With the scan time and overhead of the PLC I can runs a time base down to about 120ms accurately.

Because I only have a 30a circuit and I need to run the HLT and RIMs heater as the same time the RIMs heater SCR is a phase angle firing (voltage control) permanently adjusted so when both heaters are on the system uses under the 30 amps. This works out to permanently adjusting the RIMs heater to about 8 amps or 1900w max output, which is plenty for a RIMs heater. The temperature of this RIMs heater is still controlled by the PLC time base on/off control. Just when the heater is on it will only use 1900w.

Brad

 

[broncosaurs]

The boil kettle can be run in automatic control (PID) or manual control. I added the automatic control so as I am sparging, transferring the wort to the boil tank which takes a while I set the boil kettle temp control to 205*, just under boiling temperature. When I get all the wort transferred I switch to manual control and only need to add a little more heat to get to boil, about 5 minutes.

 

[broncosaurs]

The best part of using a PLC type of control is the ability to have a remote screen. The remote screen is in the kitchen and is controlled using Modbus tcp/ip wi/fi.

Below is the transfer screen to send to remote screen.

 

[muhteeus]

muhteeus, the Solo controllers are stand alone on my current control box. The new control box, touch screen, I am working on I programmed the three PID loops into the PLC. I also programmed the PLC outputs to turn the SSRs on/off as a time base output. With the full program running the time base is accurate (1%) running at a time base of 120ms. The new control box will only have a power switch and the touch panel on the front.

I was reading your thread a while back and was sad when you got the Micrologic.

Brad

Yeah! I was excited to do the SOLO but the MicroLogix fell in my lap. I still have the click laying around and may get that up sometime...

 

[ClaudiusB]

Solo controllers are stand alone on my current control box.

What are you planning on doing with the Solos?

I use PIDs as remote thermometers (4-20 mA out) for the PLC during normal operation.
In case of PLC failure the PIDs run the show, all automatic monitoring functions are lost but not the brew day.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[broncosaurs]

ClaudiusB, I feel a cheep PLC is reliable as a well built PID controller and considerably more reliable then most of the cheep PID controllers I see used. But after saying that I do use Fuji temp controllers connected with rs485 to the control system to control the temps on all the extruders. Pict below. I just cant beat the auto tune and automatic tune of these controllers. We switch heater sizes all the time and a retune takes only minutes. The heaters and heat load on a brew system dont change much so no need to retune all the time.

The Solos are staying in the box and I am selling it to a neighbor.

I think I wanted to do a PLC touch system (besides being an enginurd) to see if I can reduce the amount of equipment/parts/box size needed. From what I have as of now the part count is very minimal. I also think the wiring will be very easy and straight forward so most anyone could wire it, tho I'm not sure that is a good thing after reading some questions asked in the electric brew forum. I'll post the elect drawing later.

 

[broncosaurs]

Here is the electrical diagram. Very simple.

 

[ebstauffer]

The time base system works like this, say the time base is 1000ms. At 50% output the heater turns on 500ms, off 500ms. 75% power, on 750ms, off 250ms.

Is that the actual time base (I would call it duty cycle but Im just an old skool programmer) you're using? Seems you'd be putting lots of wear and tear on the SSR. Lots of talk around these parts of a 2 second time base to save on the SSR, overheating, etc.

 

[broncosaurs]

ebstauffer, the time base is the the total time period of the on cycle and off cycle. The duty cycle is the percentage of the on time to off time. For the example of the 75% power, the time base is still 1 second but the duty cycle is the 75%. At least this is how I understand it. My Fluke 87 will measure duty cycle up to about a 2 second time base. This is what I was using to check the program.

For the wear on the SSR, my Crydom design book give a MTCF (mean time cycle failure) at over 5 billion cycles. If the SSR is turned on and off once/second the MTCF is around 150 years if ran 24/7. Just keep them cool with a correct sized heat sink and let them run. Also, for example, a phased angle firing SCR is turning on and off 120/second all the time.

 

[ebstauffer]

Ahh. My bad. 1 second time base. I get it now. Thanks. Question: would it be any more involved to use a C0-04RTD module rather than the thermocouple module? Admittedly, I know just enough to be very dangerous!

 

[broncosaurs]

Either module, the T/C or RTD will work the same. Just set up the RTD module in the System Configuration the same as the T/C module. Easy peasy.

Brad

 

[broncosaurs]

frodus17, ya I'll send it to you. It has been awhile but I think I wrote 4 PID loops to control time based outputs. The system never did get tested fully so use at your own risk. I did test the PIDs and the timed base outputs. Both of these seem to work real well and works with a simple SSR. You can also use as PID control or manual % control. Works good for boil. I will set to 200* PID control (electric boil) while sparging. When done sparging the wort is all ready at 200*, I go the manual control and boil. I will also include a newer rewrite of the time base output, much cleaner. I never did get around to clean up the PID. If you do clean up the PID please send it back to me. I will also include the Micro Touch program. Even if you don't have one of these, the program to program is free and you can see the screens and data IO. I don't know how to send thru the site so send me an email address.

Hey, I've got a Click PLC as well and wondered if you have code freely available as a starting point for the PID control and timers. Its been 10 years since I did PLC programming and figured it doesn't hurt to ask.