Square &*#!%@ One On &*#!%@ Mash &*#!%@ Tun

[Gytaryst]

Pardon my special characters.

My mash tun is a converted 15.5 gallon Sanke keg with the bottom cut out and the 5-piece Bottom Drain Sanke Kit from Brewhardware. When I was putting my system together I liked the idea of the bottom drain mash tun. When I started to look for a false bottom I realized there were some issues I hadn't anticipated since there's no dip tube to hold the fb down. I read threads were guys were having trouble with fb floating up causing grain to pour thru and creating all kinds of brew day havoc, even with the expensive jaybird fb. I decided a grate and the Brew Bag for Keggle might be a better option.

I got 2 brews out of the P.O.S. brew bag. Even after treating it with kid gloves. I got everything adjusted, lined up, milled and ready to go today for a big Belgian Tripel, and as I was putting the P.O.S. Brew Bag in I noticed a ton of small holes starting to open up. This recipe called for quite a bit of grain and I didn't want to risk the thing just tearing wide open, so I had to play around with another bag inside the brew bag.

Bottom line is it was a pretty frustrating brew day.

When the mash was done I just pulled both bags out with the semi-spent grain and chunked it all in the trash.

So now I need to rethink my mash tun set up. Should I abandon the whole bottom drain concept all together and start from scratch. My other option is to give that pico fb a try. It seems like it should get a tight enough fit to prevent it from floating up or allowing grain to go by. The only downside seems to be that you have to be careful not to create too much suction with a pump - but since I don't have a pump that's not an issue.

Just curious. I HATE spending hard earned money an garbage. That P.O.S. brew bag is $30. It's not going to break the bank - but $30 for a crap bag you can only get 2 brews out of is a rip off. I also don't want to spend a half a million dollars on a false bottom if it's not going to work with the bottom drain.

 

[kh54s10]

I don't use a false bottom, but I have seen some posts where someone used silicon tubing split down the side, put that over the edge then pushed the FB down into the kettle. It was a pretty tight fit and held the FB from moving.

Try a Wilser bag. He is on this site: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...wl-sale-and-free-points-pool-giveaway.644248/

 

[FunkedOut]

Sounds like you have sharp edges.
I’ve got more than a dozen brews on my brew bag and it’s practically brand new. I squeeze it good every time too.

 

[Gytaryst]

Sounds like you have sharp edges.
I’ve got more than a dozen brews on my brew bag and it’s practically brand new. I squeeze it good every time too.

No sharp edges. After thinking about it I actually had 4 brews with it before yesterday. Yesterday was #5. I don't squeeze it. I put it in and take it out carefully, turn it inside out to dump it and hose it until every last grain is gone. Then I hang it on a towel bar thing in the laundry room. I've been ridiculously gentle with it. I treat all my stuff with care, mostly because I'm cheap and this stuff is expensive. I don't mind paying extra for quality. I do mind paying extra for garbage. I'd take pictures of the holes but it's in the bottom of my trash can outside full of grain and I'm not digging it out. The selling feature was the thick straps. They're in great shape. They probably had a couple hundred brews left in em. Very nice job on the stitching too. It looked like a nice quality well made product when I got it. I was well satisfied. But 4 brews and the voile material, (or whatever crap he uses), has runs and pin holes everywhere. Kind of makes that fancy heavy duty strap and X pattern irrelevant.

At any rate, I need to figure out an alternative. I like the bottom drain mash tun. I would have liked to have had a false bottom. The bag is kind of a hassle. I liked the fact that I can mill my grain extra fine - although I haven't noticed a huge increase in efficiency because of that so I'm thinking it's not much of an advantage.

I think I'm going to take the tun to a welder and have some kind of bolt or threaded rod welded in the bottom that I can secure a false bottom to. I've also considered the split silicone tubing as a gasket around the fb. I considered all of these options back before I bought the Brew Bag. Now I'm back to square one considering them again. The bad news is I'm out the $30 I wasted on that garbage bag. The good news is this time around I don't have to wonder if a bag is a legitimate option or not. I definitely don't have to wonder if The Brew Bag is worth $30. IT'S NOT!

 

[davidgaines]

Weird, have you tried contacting them? I've had a ton of brews using mine without that issue. I did tear a little hole on the thermowell with some force, and they sent me a patch that helped fix it. To me, it's well worth the $30.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I'm glad my brew bag isn't showing premature wear. It's going strong even after the 25 lbs of grain (plus absorbed water...probably 40 lbs total) I hoisted and squeezed a couple weeks ago.

Maybe give the Wilser bag a shot next time since he's an active poster here (and very helpful too). I may try them when mine dies, but from what I've read, that may be a couple years.

 

[Gytaryst]

Weird, have you tried contacting them? I've had a ton of brews using mine without that issue. I did tear a little hole on the thermowell with some force, and they sent me a patch that helped fix it. To me, it's well worth the $30.

I'm glad my brew bag isn't showing premature wear. It's going strong even after the 25 lbs of grain (plus absorbed water...probably 40 lbs total) I hoisted and squeezed a couple weeks ago.

Maybe give the Wilser bag a shot next time since he's an active poster here (and very helpful too). I may try them when mine dies, but from what I've read, that may be a couple years.

Nah. The first thing I did was get the bottom drain keggle. Without thinking it thru completely, I liked the idea of the bottom drain for a mash tun.

Step 2 was to look for a false bottom. During that search I read a lot of comments about fb's floating up in bottom drain tuns because there's no diptube to hold them down. I hadn't thought about that but it made sense. I looked around some more and pretty much had my mind set on the Pico false bottom. The majority of reviews I read said it fit in nice and tight.

Before shelling out $90 for it though I decided to give The Brew Bag a try for $30.

And like I said - initially I was very impressed. But after brewing with it a few times I discovered several limitations to it. I had already pretty much made up my mind that I was going to start looking for other options anyway - I just wasn't planning on HAVING to look for other options right in the middle of a brew day.

So at this point my options are the Pico fb or welding the bolt in so I can screw a regular fb down. I'm done messing with bags for the time being. This was actually my second screwed up brew day caused by a brew bag. The first time was a generic cheapy brew bag I got on Amazon. It said it measured 20" x 24" and I figured that was big enough to fit a keg. It arrived and I didn't bother opening it until brew day. It was 20" deep and 24" wide???? I'm not sure what that's supposed to fit, but it was all I had that day with a big Quad ready to go, (over 20 lbs of grain). It was a nightmare. Estimated OG was 1.100 and after fighting with that bag all day I hit 1.055.

I haven't attempted any big beers since that nightmare. I've stuck to OG's in the 1.050-1.055 range. My last brew was a festbier with an estimated OG of 1.058 and a FG of 1.012. I hit 1.058 and 1.011. So I figured I was ready to attempt another big beer. This was supposed to be a Belgian Tripel with an OG of 1.084. After fighting with these ridiculous bags I hit 1.060.

The bags are in the trash can, that's where they'll stay, and I won't even be considering using a bag to mash in again for a LONG, LONG time.

 

[Leadpencil]

I have a false bottom that sits above the drain, I have never had a problem with it floating. add grain and then water.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Small holes are typically the result of aggressive stirring with a metal paddle is my best guess. Even aggressive stirring and banging the sides or bottom of a keggle with a wood paddle could possibly damage polyester material.

I believe what happens is the tiny threads of the voile fabric get crushed from the impact of the paddle, and cause a tiny hole moving forward.

Just a guess here but I have a hunch some like to get all aggressive and manly when stirring in the grain.

Some users can use a bag for years, others not so long.

 

[FunkedOut]

and let's face it, some grains like to be paddled around rough, while other prefer a gentle stroke.

 

[PSGD]

I have a bottom draining converted keg MT and love it. FB from brewhardware.com, Never had it try to float. My grains go in first, then underlet my strike water slowly, stirring only after all the grain is completely submerged. The let the grain bed set and never touch again. I continually recirculate during the mash. Your money would be well spent on a pump.

 

[Gytaryst]

I have a false bottom that sits above the drain, I have never had a problem with it floating. add grain and then water.

and let's face it, some grains like to be paddled around rough, while other prefer a gentle stroke.

I have a bottom draining converted keg MT and love it. FB from brewhardware.com, Never had it try to float. My grains go in first, then underlet my strike water slowly, stirring only after all the grain is completely submerged. The let the grain bed set and never touch again. I continually recirculate during the mash. Your money would be well spent on a pump.

Small holes are typically the result of aggressive stirring with a metal paddle is my best guess. Even aggressive stirring and banging the sides or bottom of a keggle with a wood paddle could possibly damage polyester material.

I believe what happens is the tiny threads of the voile fabric get crushed from the impact of the paddle, and cause a tiny hole moving forward.

Just a guess here but I have a hunch some like to get all aggressive and manly when stirring in the grain.

Some users can use a bag for years, others not so long.

Wilserbrewer - you may be 100% correct - stirring the mash might very well have caused the tiny holes - who knows? On that note - I ordered my false bottom from Bobby M last week and it should be here any day. Whatever it was that caused those tiny holes is irrelevant now. It was a $30 lesson - lesson learned. Leave the bags for tea time and yogurt making.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok good luck w/ the new FB...when small pieces of #\•! grain bits get passed your FB give me a call lol.

JMO, leave the kegs for serving and drinking time.

 

[charger]

Check post 9 in the below thread to see how a false bottom was kept in place on bottom drain keggle.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/bottom-drain-pots-and-hard-plumbing.398142/

 

[augiedoggy]

Sounds like you have sharp edges.
I’ve got more than a dozen brews on my brew bag and it’s practically brand new. I squeeze it good every time too.

I was going to say the same thing... how are the edges of the keggle where the hole was cut? have they been filed or sanded smooth?

my dip tube is completely seperate from my FB and I have no issues with my FB ever "floating up" why would it do this? are you filling your MT with hot water and then doughing in or doing something different to trap air under it somehow? I DO fill my mt from the bottom port under the fb maybe that has something to do with it? I understand that some keggle FBs dont fit as well as a kettle or cooler MT fb because of the opening size (thought they made a folding fb for this though?)

Dont take this the wrong way Gytaryst but your problems honestly sound self induced here. most home brewer use either a bag or FB and many arent held in place by a dip tub or anything else but the weight of the FB itself and then the weight of the mash pushing down on it as they recirculate or sparge.. maybe consider not stirring the mash at all with a bag? I dont stir mine at all and manage 92% efficiency on my last few brews by just recirculating with a $20 plastic pump.

 

[Gytaryst]

Check post 9 in the below thread to see how a false bottom was kept in place on bottom drain keggle.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/bottom-drain-pots-and-hard-plumbing.398142/

I just got my fb in the mail. Most people I've talked to said it's never been an issue with the fb lifting and letting grain thru, so I'm going to give it a try just setting it in at first. If there are any issues I like that spring idea.

I was going to say the same thing... how are the edges of the keggle where the hole was cut? have they been filed or sanded smooth?

my dip tube is completely seperate from my FB and I have no issues with my FB ever "floating up" why would it do this? are you filling your MT with hot water and then doughing in or doing something different to trap air under it somehow? I DO fill my mt from the bottom port under the fb maybe that has something to do with it? I understand that some keggle FBs dont fit as well as a kettle or cooler MT fb because of the opening size (thought they made a folding fb for this though?)

Dont take this the wrong way Gytaryst but your problems honestly sound self induced here. most home brewer use either a bag or FB and many arent held in place by a dip tub or anything else but the weight of the FB itself and then the weight of the mash pushing down on it as they recirculate or sparge.. maybe consider not stirring the mash at all with a bag? I dont stir mine at all and manage 92% efficiency on my last few brews by just recirculating with a $20 plastic pump.

Sides of the opening are baby butt smooth. I have a large plastic spoon and a metal spoon I use to stir when I dough-in. In retrospect I'm thinking the metal spoon probably was the cause of the holes; I can't think of what else might have caused them.

It doesn't matter. I didn't realize the fabric was that fragile, but it's in the landfill now so lesson learned. It was only $30 and now I know never to waste another penny on a "bag." More power to those who use them.

I got the fb from brewhardware - the next expense will be the stainless HERMS coil and a pump. I was debating converting at least the HLT over to electric, but I think for now I'd rather stick with propane and spend my money getting my keezer built.

The bag experience pissed me off at the time because it was fresh and frustrating. It's in the past now. I won't ever use a bag again. Everything's good.