Spike CF5 lid pressure fail

[T Murph]

I'm on batch three fermenting in a CF5 and can not get the lid clamp ring tight enough to hold pressure. Anyone else experiencing this issue. I have been fermenting under pressure in kegmenters for many years with no leaking issues. But this CF5 just can't pull it off.

 

[MaxStout]

Have you contacted Spike? They're very good with customer service.

 

[T Murph]

Have you contacted Spike? They're very good with customer service.

Not yet but I plan on contacting them.

 

[eric19312]

What pressure are you trying to hold? Up to 15 PSI should be easy enough.

Getting used to the gasket was a bit of a learning curve for many Spike users. One important thing is the orientation. Make sure you are orienting it correctly with the square end sitting in the channel and the rounded end pointed toward the opposing lip. See this page for help and other ideas:
https://help.spikebrewing.com/suppo...do-i-correctly-install-my-conical-lid-gasket-
Make sure the rest of your seals are tight too. There are a lot of gaskets to get right. It is not hard to do with a bit of practice but can be a bit of a struggle out of the box.

 

[Bobby_M]

The pointy end of the gasket contacts the CF body, not the lid. Lubricate the interior surfaces of the band clamp. As you tighten, tap around the outside edge of the band clamp, tighten a bit, repeat.

 

[T Murph]

Thanks to both of you for responding. I indeed placed to gasket with the pointy edge in the groove of the lid. Eric I would like to get it up to 15 psi. Before adding wort this time I did a pressure test empty. I made sure the gasket and rim of the fermenter were wet and taped around the edges as I tightened it down. Obviously I have it upside down. I did get it to register 15 psi during the test but it could not hold it there. I went ahead and filled it with fresh wort to get fermentation going. I thought if it will build any pressure and maintain it throughout fermentation I'd try again with the next batch. However it is a Pilsner that is just now getting going. I will remove the lid and turn the gasket over and try again.

 

[k-daddy]

Check the orientation of the gasket as mentioned above, square side towards the lid. I also run a thin coating of keglube on the gasket which helped when I first pressure tested my CF5. I also lubricate the screw threads in inside of the clamp for smoother tightening.

 

[Rich1234]

How tight do you tighten the clamp? On my CF15, I had some issues early on because I was trying to make the gap at the screw tightener thingy 1/4" or whatever the destructions called for. Dealt with a slow leak when I got above 6-8 psi. I cranked it down as tight as I could get it (within reason, by hand) and haven't had an issue since.

My gasket and the conical surfaces it seals on are wet from sanitizer before I put it together. Lid and body.

 

[sleev-les]

Check the orientation of the gasket as mentioned above, square side towards the lid. I also run a thin coating of keglube on the gasket which helped when I first pressure tested my CF5. I also lubricate the screw threads in inside of the clamp for smoother tightening.

I tried the Keg Lube route and drove me nuts and messy. I hit the channel with starsan and saturated the gasket/fermenter rim. Worked great without the lube mess.

One time I forgot to put anything so when I bumped pressure it started leaking audibly out of the lid. Tapped it with a rubber mallet and stopped. Stupid mistakes haha.

 

[T Murph]

Update, I took the lid off turned the gasket over and put it back on wet with sanitizer. This morning it is holding about 3 psi. I tried to tighten the screw down to achieve that 1/4 in gap on the clamp. The shaft on the clamp began to bend but it is almost down to 1/4 in. The fermenter is in a fridge at 55 degrees. I'll check it later today to see if the pressure increases. I am very hopeful it will build and hold pressure.

 

[eric19312]

I tried the Keg Lube route and drove me nuts and messy. I hit the channel with starsan and saturated the gasket/fermenter rim. Worked great without the lube mess.

One time I forgot to put anything so when I bumped pressure it started leaking audibly out of the lid. Tapped it with a rubber mallet and stopped. Stupid mistakes haha.

agreed ...wet with sanitizer. I don't mess with keg lube on the gasket and no issue holding pressure.

 

[stealthfixr]

Had trouble holding pressure on my CF-5 when I first tried to use it. Pulled the lid, flipped the upside down seal after a very light application of Keg Lube, and tried again. Held pressure like a champ then and has not changed in 1.5 years of constant use. Bought a backup seal for just in case.

 

[T Murph]

I have to take back that statement it was holding at 3 psi. Put it in the fermentation fridge and once it cooled down it lost all pressure. Maybe it wasn't intended to ferment cold. It never got above 3 psi and that is during active fermentation.

 

[k-daddy]

I have to take back that statement it was holding at 3 psi. Put it in the fermentation fridge and once it cooled down it lost all pressure. Maybe it wasn't intended to ferment cold. It never got above 3 psi and that is during active fermentation.

The liquid volume contracts when temps are reduced. You likely didn’t lose pressure but adding the temperature variable makes conclusions harder to draw. Next time, keep the temp stable.

 

[eric19312]

Hmm it is not the liquid beer changing volume that impacts the headspace pressure. 20 Liters of water at 20 C will still be just about 20 L at 1 C. Actually if I did the math right it would be 19.9661 liters at 1 C but think you can see that change is not really driving a measurable pressure change (measurable with typical conical pressure gauge at least).

Instead the gas in the headspace changes pressure as described in the ideal gas law pV=nRT;
where p is pressure, V is volume, T is temperature, n is amount of gas and R is gas constant.

As mentioned above Volume of the gas in the headspace can be treated as a constant at beer relevant temperatures. R is also a constant so you can see pressure in the headspace should increase if either temperature increases or n increases (from generation of fermentation gas). Likewise if you cool the gas in the headspace or release gas from the headspace pressure in the headspace goes down.

@T Murph sounds like you have not yet solved the pressure holding issue. Suggest running a pressure test once you finish this batch with empty fermentor. You should be able to pressurize to 10 PSI and it should hold that pressure. Just make sure you are not changing temps in the system while you are trying to understand if you are holding pressure.

 

[k-daddy]

Hmm it is not the liquid beer changing volume that impacts the headspace pressure. 20 Liters of water at 20 C will still be just about 20 L at 1 C. Actually if I did the math right it would be 19.9661 liters at 1 C but think you can see that change is not really driving a measurable pressure change (measurable with typical conical pressure gauge at least).

Instead the gas in the headspace changes pressure as described in the ideal gas law pV=nRT;
where p is pressure, V is volume, T is temperature, n is amount of gas and R is gas constant.

As mentioned above Volume of the gas in the headspace can be treated as a constant at beer relevant temperatures. R is also a constant so you can see pressure in the headspace should increase if either temperature increases or n increases (from generation of fermentation gas). Likewise if you cool the gas in the headspace or release gas from the headspace pressure in the headspace goes down.

@T Murph sounds like you have not yet solved the pressure holding issue. Suggest running a pressure test once you finish this batch with empty fermentor. You should be able to pressurize to 10 PSI and it should hold that pressure. Just make sure you are not changing temps in the system while you are trying to understand if you are holding pressure.

While I’m not an engineer or scientist, I can say with 100% certainty that my conical holds pressure under steady temperature. When I cold crash with no co2 input, the internal tank pressure drops. Regardless of the reason why, my point is that the OP dropped the temp and his 3 lbs of pressure went to zero. By changing the temperature, the OP will not know the exact cause of the pressure drop.

 

[Rich1234]

I have to take back that statement it was holding at 3 psi. Put it in the fermentation fridge and once it cooled down it lost all pressure. Maybe it wasn't intended to ferment cold. It never got above 3 psi and that is during active fermentation.

Put some sanitizer in a spray bottle and generously spray anywhere you have a connection to the lid, including the 3 ports on top. Watch for bubbles. During active fermentation you should be producing a good amount of CO2 that should give away the leak. If it is done fermenting, (attempt to) pressurize it with CO2 to 6-8psi and perform the aforementioned action.

 

[Nikolnikov]

I had this issue with my CF10. It would not hold pressure above 10-11 PSI. I contacted Spike and they sent me their v2 lid gasket for free, which they said is not even for sale yet. It 100% fixed my issue. The thing is, the v2 gasket should've been the way they went from the beginning. It does not have the flat side. So, both sides are curved.

 

[T Murph]

This batch is a very active Czech Pilsner that is constantly blowing CO2 where the leaks are in the lid. Spike is sending a new gasket to resolve the issue. I'm not worried about suck back because of active fermentation it is just I wanted it to ferment and carbonate at the same time. This batch has to finish (7 more weeks) and then I'll work out the leak issue.

Thanks to everyone, especially Spike customer service for your help.

 

[Christoff]

What pressure are you trying to hold? Up to 15 PSI should be easy enough.

Getting used to the gasket was a bit of a learning curve for many Spike users. One important thing is the orientation. Make sure you are orienting it correctly with the square end sitting in the channel and the rounded end pointed toward the opposing lip. See this page for help and other ideas:
https://help.spikebrewing.com/suppo...do-i-correctly-install-my-conical-lid-gasket-
Make sure the rest of your seals are tight too. There are a lot of gaskets to get right. It is not hard to do with a bit of practice but can be a bit of a struggle out of the box.

+1 to this. I cursed my spike CF10 for the first few batches. That lid gasket can be a doozy. I could hear air sneaking out the first time I put it under pressure. I fully released the pressure. Let it gain pressure again and it seemed to have stop leaking pressure at that point. Fermentation went well too. It could also be how tight the lid is. Their instructions say to have a certain length of thread exposed. I think it says 1/4”. None the less I can’t get mine that tight without a small screw driver for more torque when I’m tightening. It still doesn’t get as small (im a few mm off) as their instructions suggest it should but it works.it could also be the PRV. They had a warranty issue with their all-in-one prv. They told me directly they have had to replace a few and gave me the heads up when my I called to replace my pump.