Sourdough Kvass-ish?

[Joel Newman]

I’m extremely new to brewing, but after some decent success brewing a sourdough kvass, I decided to give it another go and try to make it a little more beer-like. I screwed up a bit by adding raw sugar directly to my wort after pitching my sourdough starter, but things appear to be progressing well. It started fermentation on April 5th, was extremely active for about 48hrs, is still bubbling, and still has krausen. I don’t have any hydrometer readings, but does this recipe look like it could possibly make something ok? It smelled incredible the few times I had to open it to clean the airlock.

~390g sourdough toast
302g plain light DME
14g Galaxy hop pellets
30g sourdough starter (pitched at 85F)
200g raw cane sugar added after everything because the wort wasn’t sweet enough. Yikes.

1. Boil 1 gallon water
2. Add one sheet pan sourdough toast medium-dark (~390g after toasting).
3. Keep at a gentle boil 30 mins.
4. Drain through colander, lightly press bread.
5. Add enough water to make a gallon.
6. Bring back to a boil, incorporate DME, then boil 10 mins.
7. Add hops, then immediately chill till 85F and pour into fermenter.
8. Pitch starter and aerate the wort by shaking.
9. Air lock and begin fermentation.
10. Add raw sugar. Bad idea perhaps, but maybe it’ll be ok?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hey, welcome to HBT! Your recipe and process look fine.

The hops inhibit the bacteria in your culture, so likely it won't be tart. It may be a little on the sweet side.

You need more space in your fermenter, because the yeast will create foam (called kraüsen). You should at least attach a blow-off tube.
Otherwise the airlock may clog and you'll be cleaning beer off the ceiling.

Original gravity should be about 1.050, so you're looking at about 5-6% ABV potentially.

Cheers

 

[brownni5]

I've got a couple half loaves in my freezer waiting to make a kvass. Hope yours turns out well!

 

[Joel Newman]

Hey, welcome to HBT! Your recipe and process look fine.

The hops inhibit the bacteria in your culture, so likely it won't be tart. It may be a little on the sweet side.

You need more space in your fermenter, because the yeast will create foam (called kraüsen). You should at least attach a blow-off tube.
Otherwise the airlock may clog and you'll be cleaning beer off the ceiling.

Original gravity should be about 1.050, so you're looking at about 5-6% ABV potentially.

Cheers

That’s encouraging! How would I go about carbonation in bottles? I know about priming sugar calculators, but I’m not sure what my final volume minus the trub will be, or how much water to boil my sugar in. I’m planning to bottle on the 19th and using raw cane sugar. Any ideas?

 

[Joel Newman]

Also, yeah I totally screwed up on the headspace. Krausen clogged the airlock almost every hour after the fermentation got going, so I cleaned it that often and then just did sanitized foil overnight till it calmed down.

 

[RPh_Guy]

That’s encouraging! How would I go about carbonation in bottles? I know about priming sugar calculators, but I’m not sure what my final volume minus the trub will be, or how much water to boil my sugar in. I’m planning to bottle on the 19th and using raw cane sugar. Any ideas?

You're going to just have to estimate the volume. Close enough is good enough.

Mix the priming sugar with an equal weight of water and heat while stirring until it's clear. It doesn't need to boil.

Make sure fermentation is complete before bottling.

 

[Joel Newman]

Thanks for all the help! I’ve spent way more time in the specialty coffee world and I must say the level of patience required for beer is on a whole new level.

also, is it normal for the trub to look like a lava lamp like this?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yes, that's totally normal. CO2 bubbles are releasing from within the yeast/trub sediment.

Some of us try to limit the amount of trub that goes into the fermenter, but that's a more advanced technique for down the road.

FYI it's certainly possible with a solid process to have beer ready in about a week, more or less. I remember waiting weeks-months for it to "finish" when I was new. We've all been there (and some folks stay there; whatever floats your boat). But either way it's definitely a longer timeframe than coffee.

 

[Joel Newman]

Well I am extremely confused because this looked and smelled super gross when I was bottling. It still looks pretty gross and chunky, but tastes kinda ok? I did not take any gravity readings, so I'm not sure on the alcohol content, but I suspect it may have been around 7% due to its smell and effects. My understanding is that the sugar I added would be 100% fermentable, so that would contribute significantly to the ABV I think? I would have done a number of things differently but I didn't expect to even remotely enjoy drinking it so I suppose it's a success. Also, I would say carbonation was quite decent!

I have a more standard beer brewing now which is just distilled water, DME, Galaxy hops, and sourdough starter. It smelled a bit off about 10 days into primary, so I racked it into secondary and there is still a good bit of activity and a clean looking yeast cake on the bottom. I'm hoping that this will help it to be a good deal less funky. I'm planning to harvest yeast from that batch and make a yeast starter to get an even more "clean" and vigorous fermentation.

 

[brownni5]

I'd be interested to see what future gravity readings might be. Many "wild" strains of brewer's yeast crap out around 5% ABV.

I really need to try my sourdough starter again and push it beyond 1.032.

 

[Joel Newman]

This is from the same batch but I let it hang out in the fridge a bit longer and was more careful not to include the massive amount of yeast at the bottom of the bottle. Sooo much better. Oddly kinda like a blue moon? It tastes mostly citrusy and wheat-y which makes sense considering the bread and the Galaxy hops. Anyway, it is much more recognizable as beer now, and quite enjoyable honestly. I'm so impressed that my sourdough starter is capable of this!

 

[BruceH]

At one time I made kvass fermented with sourdough starter on a daily basis. Never bottled, just made sure to drink it on the 3rd day. ABV would range from 2.5% to 5%. This was before I brewed beer.

Best results were with burned dark rye bread, sugar, and starter in a half gallon mason jar. It was 4 large slices of dark rye, 1/4 to 1/2 cup sugar, and a few tablespoons of starter in very warm water. Left on the counter at room temp and stirred on the second day. Drank on the third or fourth day.

The result was a tart almost lemonade that was finely carbonated. I would sweeten it a little and serve over ice after straining.

FYI When the French invaded the Ukraine and Russia they were turned on to kvass and called it "Pig Lemonade".

I should start making it again, it is delicious! The downside was having the smoke alarm go off from the burned toast that's required to really get the right flavors out of it.

I've tossed my starter, maybe I'll try it with yeast.

 

[Joel Newman]

Well it took about 3 weeks, but I'm happy to report that my sourdough starter fermented this beer down to around 5% ABV. It's quite a decent beer, but I feel like if I had made a yeast starter, it could have been tastier and fermented faster. I washed the yeast from this batch, so we'll see if I can create a more robust culture with that. Here's the recipe for this batch:

550g CBW Golden Light DME
1 gal distilled water
14.7g Galaxy hop pellets
50g ripe sourdough starter
OG: 1.059
FG: 1.020

1. Mix 550g DME into 1 gal distilled water.
2. Boil 20 mins
3. Take off burner and add 14.7g galaxy hop pellets, cover.
4. Steep 15 mins, cool to 75F, strain.
5. Pitch 50g starter.
6. Shake vigorously to mix starter into wort
7. Ferment.
8. Priming: 23g raw sugar + 100g water.

• Started April 15.
• April 23: Started to smell a little odd. Racked into secondary.
• May 6: Bottled.

 

[brownni5]

Care to share tasting notes for this one? Get much from the sourdough yeast?

 

[Joel Newman]

The sourdough contributed zero tartness (likely due to the hops). There was a bit of funk, but the longer the bottles conditioned the less noticeable that was. It was a bit too sweet in my opinion so I would add some hops in the boil if I made it again.