Reusing US05 without a starter. How long can I wait?

[tyrub42]

Hi everyone!

I have an IPA going now, and plan to reuse the US05 that is fermenting it in my next beer (different style of IPA, 7 gallons). I had planned to bottle on Friday morning, throw a half gallon or so of sterile water into the fermenter, keep it at fermentation temp (about 70), and re-pitch the water after the trub settled back down.

The problem I'm having now is that my IPA is basically already at my FG, and I am entering it into a competition on May 27, so I'd like to give it a few extra days to carb in the bottle, so I was thinking I could bottle next Wednesday afternoon instead of Friday morning. The only problem here is that I have no idea if that is too long to leave my US05 without anything to eat.

FYI I'm living in Taiwan, and don't have access to DME for a starter. I've never reused yeast before, and this method of adding sterile water to your trub and letting it settle seems to be a great compromise between just throwing some trub into new wort, and finding and storing the jars needed to do a proper yeast washing.

What do you guys think? Is three days too long to wait? If not, am I correct to leave it at fermentation temp instead of chilling it to refrigeration temp for those three days?

Thanks!
Tyler

P.S.- I'm aware that 05 is cheap enough, but I'm interested in seeing how easily it can be reused, especially since I'm making batch sizes that are a bit too big for 1 packet to be optimal.

 

[kh54s10]

You do not want to add water and let it settle then use the water. The majority of the yeast will be in the trub. Leave just a little beer in the fermenter to swirl around to loosen the trub, pour it into a well sanitized jar and store in the fridge. It should be good there for a couple of weeks.

Are you really planning on only 10 days bottle conditioning? You might be entering a flat beer into the contest. It is generally accepted that it takes 3 weeks to fully condition. The shortest I have ever tried a bottled beer is at day 14. Some were fully carbonated, others not so much.

 

[flars]

Leave some beer in your fermentor after racking. Storing the yeast in the fermentor covered with the just fermented beer is the best way to keep the yeast healthy. Adding water to the fermentor for storage or rinsing will weaken the yeast and has the potential for infection.

It is the same whether the yeast is covered with 12 ounces of beer or 5 gallons. The yeast will remain is a fresh pitch state for weeks without needing a starter.

edoit: forgot to add the link to this thread on yeast harvesting and storage.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=579350

 

[tyrub42]

You do not want to add water and let it settle then use the water. The majority of the yeast will be in the trub. Leave just a little beer in the fermenter to swirl around to loosen the trub, pour it into a well sanitized jar and store in the fridge. It should be good there for a couple of weeks.

Are you really planning on only 10 days bottle conditioning? You might be entering a flat beer into the contest. It is generally accepted that it takes 3 weeks to fully condition. The shortest I have ever tried a bottled beer is at day 14. Some were fully carbonated, others not so much.

Thanks!

Yeah just 10 days; probably less actually. Beer bottle conditions a lot faster than conventional guides suggest. Just want to leave unhoppy beers conditioning longer for the beer to mellow. I've never let a hoppy beer stay in bottles longer than 2 weeks before putting them all in the fridge. Somewhat temperature dependent, though, of course...so if you condition at like 60, it will take much longer than at 70-75. Normally, I'd do 2 weeks at about 70, but since time is a factor, I'll do 7-8 days at 75 and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[tyrub42]

Leave some beer in your fermentor after racking. Storing the yeast in the fermentor covered with the just fermented beer is the best way to keep the yeast healthy. Adding water to the fermentor for storage or rinsing will weaken the yeast and has the potential for infection.

It is the same whether the yeast is covered with 12 ounces of beer or 5 gallons. The yeast will remain is a fresh pitch state for weeks without needing a starter.

edoit: forgot to add the link to this thread on yeast harvesting and storage.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=579350

Thanks for the tip! How much beer do you leave in? Do you just swirl it around and then give it time to settle and add the liquid?

Edit: that link has everything, thanks!

 

[kh54s10]

Thanks!

Yeah just 10 days; probably less actually. Beer bottle conditions a lot faster than conventional guides suggest. Just want to leave unhoppy beers conditioning longer for the beer to mellow. I've never let a hoppy beer stay in bottles longer than 2 weeks before putting them all in the fridge. Somewhat temperature dependent, though, of course...so if you condition at like 60, it will take much longer than at 70-75. Normally, I'd do 2 weeks at about 70, but since time is a factor, I'll do 7-8 days at 75 and keep my fingers crossed.

Good luck, IMO it is rolling the dice.... As I stated at 2 weeks and in my heated basement, about 70 degrees, some were carbonated, others had very little. Maybe 60/40. And, IMO, all of my beers, even hoppy ones tasted better at 3 weeks and longer for bigger, maltier beers.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would collect a quart jar of yeast slurry and store it in the refrigerator. Too much oxygen in an empty fermenter with just a yeast cake in the bottom for me....

Ymmv

 

[wilserbrewer]

A jar of fresh slurry in the refrigerator should easily be viable for a week or two, likely four....

 

[tyrub42]

I would collect a quart jar of yeast slurry and store it in the refrigerator. Too much oxygen in an empty fermenter with just a yeast cake in the bottom for me....

Ymmv

Real newb question here, but just to make sure, by 'yeast slurry', do you mean sterile water mixed with trub and swirled around? If so, I could definitely do that as I have a spare jar. Two questions related to that:

1- would it be better in the fridge, or at fermentation temp? I have both options, both equally easy overall.
2- wouldn't oxygen not be a problem for yeast going into unfermented wort?

Very much appreciate the feedback!

 

[tyrub42]

Good luck, IMO it is rolling the dice.... As I stated at 2 weeks and in my heated basement, about 70 degrees, some were carbonated, others had very little. Maybe 60/40. And, IMO, all of my beers, even hoppy ones tasted better at 3 weeks and longer for bigger, maltier beers.

Thanks! Yeah it's not ideal, but it's my first comp, and the winner gets their recipe brewed and distributed, which is pretty sweet. 80 contestants, but I've been brewing killer beers lately, so I think it's time to go for it.

It sounds a bit like you might need to swirl your bottling bucket a bit more, if your results are inconsistent between bottles. That happens to many of my friends as well. Since we are all so worried about O2 exposure, we don't want to mix it up more than we have to, but sugar can have a tough time getting equally mixed in. Luckily, none of my beers have ever exploded or been inconsistently carbed, but on the other hand, I'm always worried about having too much O2 exposure. Pick your poison I guess, haha. Since I brew all heavily hopped beers this time of year, and have 5 empty kegs, I should probably suck it up and start kegging...but it would involve taking most of the food out of my fridge to fit one in there haha.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Real newb question here, but just to make sure, by 'yeast slurry', do you mean.....!

I mean the yeast that is left in the bottom of the fermenter.

If using a bucket, you can collect with a soup ladle. If using a carboy you can swirl the cake with the little bit of remaining beer and pour to a jar.

While some like to wash yeast then perhaps build a new starter. Myself and some others just prefer to save a portion of the yeast cake and re pitch that KISS

 

[tyrub42]

I mean the yeast that is left in the bottom of the fermenter.

If using a bucket, you can collect with a soup ladle. If using a carboy you can swirl the cake with the little bit of remaining beer and pour to a jar.

While some like to wash yeast then perhaps build a new starter. Myself and some others just prefer to save a portion of the yeast cake and re pitch that KISS

Awesome, sounds super easy. Is it an issue if I have a lot of hop matter in the cake?

 

[kh54s10]

Real newb question here, but just to make sure, by 'yeast slurry', do you mean sterile water mixed with trub and swirled around? If so, I could definitely do that as I have a spare jar. Two questions related to that:

1- would it be better in the fridge, or at fermentation temp? I have both options, both equally easy overall.
2- wouldn't oxygen not be a problem for yeast going into unfermented wort?

Very much appreciate the feedback!

You don't need any water, just leave enough beer to loosen the yeast cake. It will last longer at fridge temperatures. Oxygen will give your beer a wet cardboard taste. It would be minimized when repitching but best if not there at all.

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It sounds a bit like you might need to swirl your bottling bucket a bit more, if your results are inconsistent between bottles.

I am not talking bottle to bottle, but to how long it takes for each batch to carbonate. It might take longer than the 10 days you are allowing. I would bottle it ASAP.

Awesome, sounds super easy. Is it an issue if I have a lot of hop matter in the cake?

Heavily hopped yeast cakes might transfer some of the hop flavors to the new beer. Small amounts given the size of the pitch into the new batch.

 

[tyrub42]

You don't need any water, just leave enough beer to loosen the yeast cake. It will last longer at fridge temperatures. Oxygen will give your beer a wet cardboard taste. It would be minimized when repitching but best if not there at all.



I am not talking bottle to bottle, but to how long it takes for each batch to carbonate. It might take longer than the 10 days you are allowing. I would bottle it ASAP.



Heavily hopped yeast cakes might transfer some of the hop flavors to the new beer. Small amounts given the size of the pitch into the new batch.

I see, thanks a lot! So you don't expect the older hops to transfer any grassy flavors if repitched into new wort?

I think Wednesday is really the soonest I can do it. That's 11 days after pitching. I could do it Monday, but that's just 9 days. Even if I kick it up to 72 degrees for the next two days, that seems way too quick, right? If it helps, I was at my expected FG when I added my second dry hop charge yesterday (although it may conceivably still drop 1-2 points)

 

[tyrub42]

kh54s10, you've got me thinking quite a lot about this now. I could drop the temp tomorrow evening and bottle Monday afternoon. Krausen and dry hops are gone (meaning they aren't at the top), and I've been agitating the fermenter several times a day to get the most out of my dry hop exposure.

Not much activity but I do have a few bubbles showing up on top here and there. Blowoff tube isn't working properly so no way to tell if there are any bubbles, but I'd guess it's just trapped CO2 making its way to the top.

What would you suggest? Bottle Monday and condition 10 days? Or bottle Wednesday and Condition for 8?

 

[kh54s10]

kh54s10, you've got me thinking quite a lot about this now. I could drop the temp tomorrow evening and bottle Monday afternoon. Krausen and dry hops are gone (meaning they aren't at the top), and I've been agitating the fermenter several times a day to get the most out of my dry hop exposure.

Not much activity but I do have a few bubbles showing up on top here and there. Blowoff tube isn't working properly so no way to tell if there are any bubbles, but I'd guess it's just trapped CO2 making its way to the top.

What would you suggest? Bottle Monday and condition 10 days? Or bottle Wednesday and Condition for 8?

I really don't suggest either. I would ferment longer and bottle condition for a minimum of 2 weeks. But, given the choices, I would take gravity readings and bottle as soon as FG is determined and condition as long as possible.

 

[tyrub42]

I really don't suggest either. I would ferment longer and bottle condition for a minimum of 2 weeks. But, given the choices, I would take gravity readings and bottle as soon as FG is determined and condition as long as possible.

Yeah not ideal, but we do what we can. I'm going to stop agitating it after today to let everything start to settle, then chill it tomorrow (not to cold crashing temp, but just a bit to encourage more settling, but keep enough yeast in suspension to kick off bottle conditioning right away...probably to 53 degrees or so), and bottle on Tuesday and keep my fingers crossed. I'll let you know how the finished product turns out. Thanks again for the advice