Partial kettle sour, first sour attempt (Pentagram inspired)

[FrogDawn]

Hello everyone. Just wanted to solicit some advice/suggestions on an upcoming brew that I've been "designing" for the better part of 2 weeks. I'm also using this thread as a method of documentation for this involved long-term beer. As the title mentions, this grain bill is that of a clone for Surly Brewing's Pentagram. Some basic numbers first...

Grain Bill
11.5# Pale Ale malt
1# Belgian Crystal 10L
0.37# Dark Munich
0.37# Chocolate malt

Hops
0.40 oz Columbus (AA 15%) 60 minutes

Mashing
0.31 gallons/pound
4.1 gallon strike at 168-169F for 60 min mash at 155F

7 gallon boil for 5 gallons wort
Target OG 1.066
Estimated pre-boil SG of 1.047
target FG 1.022

Bugs

Partial grain Lacto kettle sour
Heady Topper Conan yeast for primary
Omega All the Bretts (OLY218) and stepped up Draai Laag K2 dregs in secondary


Schedule...

Day -3:
Sour starter: 0.5L of 1.040 DME mixed with 200ml apple juice and 1/4 tsp yeast nutrient. Added 1 cup of grains and some seltzer water to drive off oxygen. Covered with sanitized foil and incubate in small cooler and heat blanket around ~110F until Day 0 (total of 72 hours). Will verify LAB inoculation via pH strips.

Conan starter: 1L starter, 100g DME to 1L water with yeast nutrient.

Day -1:
Step up Conan starter to 2L (~200b cells?)

Mash half of grain bill (with no hops), 60 minutes @ 155F. Cool to ~110F and pitch sour starter. Incubate at ~110F for 24 hours.

Day 0 (Brew day):
Mash 2nd half of recipe.
Combine both halves, boil full batch with hops.
Cool to ambient, pitch Conan starter.
Ferment "clean" wort in primary (bucket) for 1 week.

Day 7:
Rack to secondary (glass carboy) and pitch OLY-218 and stepped up starter of Draai Laag K2.

I believe Draai Laag is a mixed culture of brett/lacto/pedio (possibly sacc?) and that will help sour the beer during a long secondary.

~Day 100:
Add 0.3 oz toasted and boiled American Oak cubes that have been soaked in red wine for the entirety of the fermentation (likely 100 days).

Whenever FG stabilizes for a month, I'll look to bottle with low to moderate carbonation.

I welcome any feedback or suggestions from anyone. And I'll be sure to update this thread along the way!


Cheers!

 

[coypoo]

Some people have been adding calcium carbonate to their lacto starters which helps promote more growth. Worth checking out (I haven't done it yet, but will next week)

Why only souring half the mash? With kettle souring only half the wort for 24 hours and then boiling you may not get as sour as you'd like. But, the dregs with the pedio may take over later (post-boil you won't have much lacto activity with that high of IBUs)

You might could increase the mash temp to allow more complex sugars for the brett to get at since you're doing a "clean" primary with just Sacc

 

[redllama]

I have only used Omega's Lacto blend and would pitch directly from the pouch into 10g of wort with no starter. I was able to reach my desired level of pH "sourness" in about 24 hours for a basic berlinner. Might make things a bit easier on you than having to worry about a starter for the lacto.

 

[FrogDawn]

Sorry for the late reply, didn't realize there were any replies! lol

coypoo - I do have some CaCO3 on hand for any sours that I take to a very low pH. As I understand, this buffers against extreme pH slumps thereby allowing lacto to work longer. Also, I soured half because I have never done any souring and wanted to try my hand at maintaining lacto temps and at harvesting lacto from grains. I figured if I mucked up half my batch, I'd still have something to ferment lol. Thought about raising mash temp but from what I've read, brett always finds plenty to eat. Plus, I don't know that the primary ferment will be finished by the time i rack to secondary anyway. So hopefully even more sugars for the bretts to eat!

redllama - I have heard good things about the Omega blend and will likely take that route next time.

FWIW, I was successful in getting my lacto starter to pH 3.8 in the 48 hours prior to pitching without any vinegar aromas/flavors. Mashed the first half of the grist, pitched my lacto starter and was at pH 4.2 at 24 hours. Didn't work as fast as the commercial blends I've read about, but it was a successful learning experience nonetheless.

 

[FrogDawn]

I will need to come back here and detail (both) brew day(s) later this evening. Currently at work and also do not have my notes with me.

Editted to add brew schedule:
11/30
500 ml of just-off-boil (1.040) DME wort, 1/8 tsp lactic acid, 120g 2-row grain, 300 ml preservative-free apple juice and 1/8 tsp yeast nutrient. Topped off with seltzer to drive off O2. Incubated for 48 hours at ~110F by placing in (pre-heated) small cooler, wrapped in a heat blanket on high. Started 1L conan yeast in 1.040 DME starter with yeast nutrient.

12/1
stepped Conan starter to 2L /w yeast nutrient and hops.

12/2
BIAB mashed (168F strike for 60 min mash at 155F) half of grain bill. Pitched lacto starter once wort hit 120F. Applied heat blanket to hold temps ~110-120F for 24 hours.

12/3
pH of soured half hit 4.2.
Mashed 2nd half of grain bill. Same as before, strike water to 168F and mashed for 60 min at 155F.
Combine both halves for full boil. Hopped 11.3g Columbus for 60 mins.
1.065 OG
Immersion chilled to 70F and pitched decanted 2L Conan starter.

Fermenting in ambient 68F for a week before proceeding.

Krausen fell yesterday (12/7), have not checked SG yet. Intend to check SG and rack to secondary on Sat (12/10) and pitch stepped up Draai Laag dregs (which have a solid pellicle on it) and 2 starters of OLY-218. One OLY-218 starter is 100% apple juice with yeast nutrient (200ml) and the other is a DME/nutrient starter (500ml).

My thinking there is the apple juice bretts will be accustomed to simple sugars and go to town while the DME starter can begin the more complex sugar breakdowns. Concocted that idea while listening to Chads presentation on Brettanomyces. I forget when and in which presentation it was, but he essentially stated that the Bretts would going through phases of metabolism. They would begin breaking down compound A before going on to metabolize compound B, before compound C, etc etc...

Thats about it! Will update when there's something to report!