Oktoberfest Beer Advice

[Morrey]

We note this is the time of the year we all scramble for Oktoberfest recipes - not March like the old days before refrigeration/cooling was available.

Anyway - there are lots of Oktoberfest recipes out there and I have tried a few. Unfortunately I feel many recipes turn out a bit too sweet, a bit too malty and under bittered which gives me a sense of unbalanced beer. I suppose I could bump the IBU's, but there may be better advice out there than that. Oddly, when I was in Germany, I never felt their Oktoberfest beers were like this.

Still need some specialty malts to give it body and character typical of the style. Maybe I need a different yeast altho I have 34/70 ready to go. Is there anyone out there who has worked to steer around the profiles I mentioned, and if so, what were the tips and tricks you used? Thanks!!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Start by dropping all crystal malts.

Crystal is not traditional to any German style. Stick with Pils, Munich, and Vienna.

 

[Morrey]

That alone will drop lots of the sweetness most recipes call for with crystal malts.

 

[BigEd]

We note this is the time of the year we all scramble for Oktoberfest recipes - not March like the old days before refrigeration/cooling was available.

Anyway - there are lots of Oktoberfest recipes out there and I have tried a few. Unfortunately I feel many recipes turn out a bit too sweet, a bit too malty and under bittered which gives me a sense of unbalanced beer. I suppose I could bump the IBU's, but there may be better advice out there than that. Oddly, when I was in Germany, I never felt their Oktoberfest beers were like this.

Still need some specialty malts to give it body and character typical of the style. Maybe I need a different yeast altho I have 34/70 ready to go. Is there anyone out there who has worked to steer around the profiles I mentioned, and if so, what were the tips and tricks you used? Thanks!!

Malty? Yes, absolutely. Sweet? Not so much, sweet means to me that there's too much crystal malt, a common occurrence in both amateur and professional beers in the US. A really good Oktoberfest, IMO, starts with lots of good German base malt, just enough hops to balance, a decoction or Hockhurz mash schedule, and enough time to let the beer ferment and age in its own time.

Then there are two versions of the Oktoberfest bier. The modern version is light in color ( a deep gold actually) and uses Vienna malt as the base. It's really good but I love the older, traditional, and darker version based on Munich malt. The recipe below is a homage to the older style, to convert to a more modern brew substitute 12 lbs of Vienna and 6 lbs of Pilsner (for 10 gallons) for the base malts and leave everything else alone. For a standard 5 gallon/19L batch just cut everything in half.

10 Gallons(US)

10 lbs Weyermann Munich II
5 lbs Weyermann Munich I
3 lbs Weyermann Pils
1 lb Carafoam

2 oz Spalt (4.75% AA) @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt (4.75% AA)@ 30 minutes

White Lab 838 Southern German yeast

Single decoction w/ decoction to mashout

132F for 15 minutes
152F for 60 minutes
168F for 10 minutes

est OG 1.058
est IBU 25

 

[Morrey]

Thanks for the recipe and information @BigEd. Dropping all crystal is probably the biggest "tip" I have gotten from both you and @RPh_Guy. Just looking at a general cross section of online recipes, I dare say most of them are including varying amounts of C malts. This is the sweetness factor I prefer to stay away from. I am associating malty and sweet in the same vein which is improper of me to say. I like a balanced malt profile, and like you say, it doesn't necessarily mean the beer is overly sweet. The beers in Germany are a far cry different than the Americanized Oktoberfest beers I've had.

I poked around last eve and am attempting to cobble together something that may suit my tastes. Let me run this by you: 50% Vienna, 30% Pilsen, 20% Munich...all of which I have on hand currently. Seems this may be a "compromise" between the old and new, plus it will limit the amount of sweetness skipping crystal.

Decoction seemed important to you. I BIA"B" with the B meaning Arbor Fab basket. I mention this since the basket can take bottom heat w/o burning a bag, plus the basket holds the grain well off the kettle bottom. My typical MO is to do a single infusion full volume mash, and in this case, I'd go for 152F. Not setup for decoction per se, but wonder if a single step mash schedule may make a difference in this beer. In your opinion, is it worth my time to mash in at 132F for 15 min, then raise to 152F for an hour? I've never felt this was needed with today's well modified malts, but I could be wrong and have been missing the boat all along.

Last point is hopping and water. I have a decent supply of Hallertau Hersbrucker which is probably ok to stay close to style. I targeted 27 IBU and BeerSmith had me pushing the limits of BJCP style 6A which is Marzen. For water I'll use Brun'n profile for Amber Full even though I am inclined to adjust the SO4 and Cl more toward balanced. Thoughts?

 

[CarolinaMatt]

Thanks for the recipe and information @BigEd. Dropping all crystal is probably the biggest "tip" I have gotten from both you and @RPh_Guy. Just looking at a general cross section of online recipes, I dare say most of them are including varying amounts of C malts. This is the sweetness factor I prefer to stay away from. I am associating malty and sweet in the same vein which is improper of me to say. I like a balanced malt profile, and like you say, it doesn't necessarily mean the beer is overly sweet. The beers in Germany are a far cry different than the Americanized Oktoberfest beers I've had.

I poked around last eve and am attempting to cobble together something that may suit my tastes. Let me run this by you: 50% Vienna, 30% Pilsen, 20% Munich...all of which I have on hand currently. Seems this may be a "compromise" between the old and new, plus it will limit the amount of sweetness skipping crystal.

Decoction seemed important to you. I BIAB with the B meaning Arbor Fab basket. I mention this since the basket can take bottom heat w/o burning a bag, plus the basket holds the grain well off the kettle bottom. My typical MO is to do a single infusion full volume mash, and in this case, I'd go for 152F. But it seemed by your post a step mash schedule may make a difference in this beer. In your opinion, is it worth my time to mash in at 132F for 15 min, then slowly raise to 152F for an hour?

Last point is hopping and water. I have a decent supply of Hallertau Hersbrucker which is probably ok to stay close to style. I targeted 27 IBU and BeerSmith had me pushing the limits of BJCP style 6A which is Marzen. For water I'll use Brun'n profile for Amber Full even though I am inclined to adjust the SO4 and Cl more toward balanced. Thoughts?

I just brewed my first Oktoberfest start of August and I do BIAB also. I did a double decoction mash and I must say it was a lot of extra work and somewhat of a pain, but with that being said it was also really fun and I'm a fan of the process. It added about 2 hours to my brew day, but the color I got was absolutely beautiful (check the photos!). As you pull your decoctions and boil them it allows for a darker color to come through as the grains are cooked/boiled. I wish I would have taken a picture, but the mash grains compared to what I pulled and boiled for the first decoction was much darker. I ended up doing the decoction in a few kitchen pans in the house on my stove as my burner was scorching the grains at the bottom of my smaller pots. Let us know what you decide to do!

 

[dmtaylor]

I like a touch of CaraMunich, I mean just a little like 3-4% so it's not too sweet. If you like it more dry, then skip all crystal malt, as others suggested.

That's really all there is to it.

 

[SEndorf]

I too, like a bit of Caramunich:

59% Salzgitter Pilzner
33% Dark German Munich
08% Caramunich ll

Not to pick nits... but Caramunich is not really a "crystal" and is fairly commonplace in Oktoberfest.
This turns out plenty dry and malty with WP833 German Bock

 

[SailorJerry]

We just crafted one based on a few different recipes found on here, never brewed it before though!
5 gallon BIAB
5# Vienna (47.6%)
2.5# Pilsner (23.8%)
2.5# Munich (23.8%)
.5# Caramunich (4.8%)

Then 1 oz of Mt Hood @ 60 min, for 22 IBU's

Hopefully gives us...
1.053 OG
1.016 SG
8.5 SRM ( a little dark, per style guidelines)
4.93% ABV

 

[specharka]

Thanks for the recipe and information @BigEd. Dropping all crystal is probably the biggest "tip" I have gotten from both you and @RPh_Guy. Just looking at a general cross section of online recipes, I dare say most of them are including varying amounts of C malts. This is the sweetness factor I prefer to stay away from. I am associating malty and sweet in the same vein which is improper of me to say. I like a balanced malt profile, and like you say, it doesn't necessarily mean the beer is overly sweet. The beers in Germany are a far cry different than the Americanized Oktoberfest beers I've had.

I poked around last eve and am attempting to cobble together something that may suit my tastes. Let me run this by you: 50% Vienna, 30% Pilsen, 20% Munich...all of which I have on hand currently. Seems this may be a "compromise" between the old and new, plus it will limit the amount of sweetness skipping crystal.

Decoction seemed important to you. I BIA"B" with the B meaning Arbor Fab basket. I mention this since the basket can take bottom heat w/o burning a bag, plus the basket holds the grain well off the kettle bottom. My typical MO is to do a single infusion full volume mash, and in this case, I'd go for 152F. Not setup for decoction per se, but wonder if a single step mash schedule may make a difference in this beer. In your opinion, is it worth my time to mash in at 132F for 15 min, then raise to 152F for an hour? I've never felt this was needed with today's well modified malts, but I could be wrong and have been missing the boat all along.

Last point is hopping and water. I have a decent supply of Hallertau Hersbrucker which is probably ok to stay close to style. I targeted 27 IBU and BeerSmith had me pushing the limits of BJCP style 6A which is Marzen. For water I'll use Brun'n profile for Amber Full even though I am inclined to adjust the SO4 and Cl more toward balanced. Thoughts?

You are on the right path, sir!

I feel that “malty” and “sweet” are two completely different sensations, and they can be mutually exclusive. Oktoberfest/Märzen is a style I would characterize as malty, but never sweet — any perceptible sweetness would come across as cloying and inappropriate. I don’t enjoy crystal malt in my Märzen for this reason, but I could understand using it for color correction, as required.

If you’re doing a single infusion, 152F is a perfect rest temperature. I would recommend avoiding a protein rest, especially if you’re using fully modified Pilsner malt...and I’ve never even seen under modified Vienna and Munich malt. It doesn’t take much time in the protein rest range to strip the grist of head retention. If you’re feeling ambitious, a modified Hochkurz schedule with equal 30 min rests at 144 and 156 will also work.

I’m inclined to agree with your water profile inclinations. A balanced SO4 to Cl ratio will give you an excellent balance between malt and hops, and so long as you keep the Ca around 50 ppm it will really help the yeast to flocculate, yielding bright beer.

 

[passedpawn]

Then there are two versions of the Oktoberfest bier. The modern version is light in color ( a deep gold actually) and uses Vienna malt as the base. It's really good but I love the older, traditional, and darker version based on Munich malt. The recipe below is a homage to the older style, to convert to a more modern brew substitute 12 lbs of Vienna and 6 lbs of Pilsner (for 10 gallons) for the base malts and leave everything else alone.

Nice post.

I have made the darker version of the ocfest for several years (on tap right now in fact). But I think I prefer the much lighter ocfest, and next year it's getting made.

I recently had HofbrauHaus ocfest. It's very light colored, similar to a bopils or similar - in fact, I was sure they had served me the wrong beer. It has more body than a pilsner, and a light but distinct maltiness. Really nice.

 

[BrewerE]

See these two links:
https://www.paulaner.com/us/products/oktoberfest-beers/oktoberfest-marzen#tabid_Ingredients

https://www.paulaner.com/us/products/oktoberfest-beers/oktoberfest-wiesn#tabid_Ingredients

they are both great. (I lean towards the wiesn)
they are both Munich and pilsner only (probably some acid malt).

I've done the marzen as follows: 70% Munich + 28% Pilsner, 2% Acid, Hallertau Hops, and w34/70 yeast
Turned out really good.

Did the wiesn as well, don't have my percentages in front of me, but want to say 80% pilsner, 18% Munich, 2% acid, Hallertau, 34/70.
was awesome.

 

[Dirty25]

I’ve brewed a few festbiers pils/carapils, pils/vienna, pils/munich, and pils/Munich/vienna. The pils with a bit of carapils was my best one. I hop it to 25 IBU calculated and shoot for 1.060 OG.

 

[z-bob]

Nice post.

I recently had HofbrauHaus ocfest. It's very light colored, similar to a bopils or similar - in fact, I was sure they had served me the wrong beer. It has more body than a pilsner, and a light but distinct maltiness. Really nice.

I discovered Hofbrauhaus O'fest last year, and it's one of my favorite beers. I think it's a style that's beyond my capabilities to brew, so I am really looking forward to it hitting the shelves this year. (should be soon, and I hopes Costco sells it by the case again)

 

[BigEd]

Just looking at a general cross section of online recipes, I dare say most of them are including varying amounts of C malts.

That's probably because most American brewers are used to the taste of the American versions.

The beers in Germany are a far cry different than the Americanized Oktoberfest beers I've had.

Yes they are. Ingredients and brewing methods are the biggest reason. You can make a German-tasting beer on this side of the Atlantic if you really want to.

Decoction seemed important to you.

I do all my lagers with decoction mash, but that's just me. You can make a good beer without it.

In your opinion, is it worth my time to mash in at 132F for 15 min, then raise to 152F for an hour? I've never felt this was needed with today's well modified malts, but I could be wrong and have been missing the boat all along.

The decoction method I use is not concerned with the modification of the malt. The "don't do a decoction" contingent claims harmful effects to the beer. That is probably true if you used an old-time, traditional schedule. Mine moves up the initial temp rest to the border of the beta saccharification rest and shortens the time at that stage. If you are going to do a single temp mash I'd move it down to 148F/64C to help with the German-style drier finish.

Last point is hopping and water. I have a decent supply of Hallertau Hersbrucker which is probably ok to stay close to style. I targeted 27 IBU and BeerSmith had me pushing the limits of BJCP style 6A which is Marzen. For water I'll use Brun'n profile for Amber Full even though I am inclined to adjust the SO4 and Cl more toward balanced. Thoughts?

My suggestion is to go very easy on SO4. I'd say about 75ppm on Cl2 and keep the SO4 to no more than a third of that.

 

[SEndorf]

For water I'll use Brun'n profile for Amber Full even though I am inclined to adjust the SO4 and Cl more toward balanced. Thoughts?

Presuming you're lagering, I'd use a lager profile; low on the calcium and sulfate.