Nutrients to boost brewers yeast growth?

[avalon]

I want to produce not just fermented drink in form of kvass but also to grow nutritious brewers yeast. I got now liquid malt extract and Belgian ale surface fermentation yeast. Grain malt might be sufficient for beer and alcohol making but for effective fermentation and growing healthy yeast that might be not enough.

I done some reading and found following nutrient recommendations for brewing yeast. Main minerals yeast needs is nitrogen which of even 10% cell are composed of, as well 5-3% phosphorus, calcium, potassium, magnesium, zinc, iron, adequate supply of sugar and B vitamins such as biotin, nicotinic and pantothenic acid. Since my main interest is in NAD+ and their precursor production I need to supply enough nitrogen and phosphorus elements. Diammonium Phosphate (DAP) which is fertilizer is also used to provide these elements to yeast since they can utilize inorganic materials. Although I’m concerned with fertilizer toxicity. I can use now only B vitamin, magnesium and gypsum supplements which are safe for human consumption. Molasses are also better alternative to sugar.

I think it would be better to use whole plant materials to provide all essential nutrients. Grains are already being used for malt, they are cheap and nutritious. Question is how to dissolve them into water to make nutrients available to yeast?

 

[avalon]

No replies yet. I just found scientific paper claiming boron stimulates yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) growth:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...mulates_Yeast_Saccharomyces_cerevisiae_Growth

However I read that lithium inhibits growth what I found a bit strange since it is claimed that brewers yeast is good source of this mineral.

 

[IslandLizard]

Vitamin supplements for humans may not be the correct form for yeast to access. After I ran out of a small supply of Zinc Chloride, I had been using a small pinch of powdered chelated Zinc dietary supplements (Zinc Gluconate) in my yeast starters and beer wort, together with DAP, Epsom salt, Urea, (1:1:1). Although I haven't noticed any difference, when I learned that yeast may not be able to access or metabolize Zinc in that form, I'm now using Zinc Sulfate instead. Again, without any noticeable difference. A pound used as such lasts a long, long time even if I pinch out 50-100mg a day as my own food supplement.

There are other trace elements that are beneficial or even crucial to yeasts' metabolisms, and judging by the amounts of beer we all make, it looks that Barley based beer wort seems to fulfill those pretty well.

I buy DAP by the pound at my brew store, and (unscented) Epsom salt at the drugstore. Pounds of food grade Urea and Zinc Sulfate from an online chemical supplier, as well as Potassium Chloride for my pH probe's storage solution.

Grains are already being used for malt, they are cheap and nutritious. Question is how to dissolve them into water to make nutrients available to yeast?

Isn't that what milling and mashing the malted grains does to make wort? Or are you asking something different?
Since ultimately LME and DME are derived from the same malted grain (wort), they should contain the same nutrients. They work well for yeast starters as is, even without supplements.

 

[IslandLizard]

I was unaware of B vitamins being necessary supplements for yeast when brewing beer. They may be supplied by malted grain already.

 

[IslandLizard]

Although totally on-topic for this Yeast forum, I'm almost sure you would get more input if this thread was placed in the Brew Science forum.
I could move it if you wish.

 

[avalon]

Yes, that would be good idea to move there then. Have to be careful with zinc because too much of it can have side effects to humans such as hair loss. However magnesium is hard to overdose and is very beneficial so I do plan to use epsom salt. Papper did mention vitamins B such as biotin being necessary for yeast development.
For the rest nutrients I think it would be better to use natural whole foods since that is on what yeast feeds naturally. I could use DAP or other synthetic additives but just if it would be practical gain more nutrients of interest.

https://www.jstrack.org/brewing/Yeast_nutrition_article.pdf

 

[bracconiere]

Grains are already being used for malt, they are cheap and nutritious. Question is how to dissolve them into water to make nutrients available to yeast?

before it gets moved... and i won't get cussed out...I see your new, and it's the process of sprouting them, and then mashing at certain temps to activate enzymes....

and sparging to separate the now spent grain from the wort....?

and i thought about using my trub for yeast too, but once dried it really isn't much yeast....2lb bag of active dry baker's yeast is only $10 off the i-net here...a lot cheaper, unless of course your trying to justify drinking more beer. which is always justifiable!

edit: there's always turbo yeast! and some patent trolling might, get you their recipe.....

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, that would be good idea to move there then.

before it gets moved

I'm going to leave it here since the thread appears to be about growing yeast for different reasons than brewing. I had overlooked that detail.
Thanks, @bracconiere for pointing that out.

@avalon, it's advantageous in these circles to familiarize yourself with the principles of malting grain and how the enzymes in the malted grain are then used to convert various starch sources into (fermentable) sugars.

 

[HTH1975]

Here are my notes on yeast health...

• Magnesium. Important for yeast to grow. With minimal levels the yeast will produce compounds that compensate for this (not good for health or growth). Magnesium improves yeast’s ability to withstand stress and assists in preventing cell death when ethanol builds up.

• Zinc sulphate (28% zinc) or chloride (48% zinc, preferred). Important in cell reproduction. Some of zinc is absorbed by hot break, so 0.2-0.3mg/L is about right in copper near end of boil (we want around 0.1-0.15mg/L in FV).

 

[avalon]

How much DAP do I need to add to 3L of brewing solution? There has to be concentration that yeast can consume so that it wouldn't be toxic to consume.
How about using high quality plant fertilizer? I have NPK fertilizer with lots of other microelements such as magnesium, zinc, iron and so on. Nitrogen comes in form NO3-N and NH4-N. Phosphorus in form of P2O5.