Non-Beverage Grade CO2 and the Impurities Within

[Brewmegoodbeer]

Hello all,

I have done a fair share of research on different grades of co2 (which does exist) and I am becoming concerned. Every forum I read on here states to get your co2 for beer at paintball stores, welding shops, sporting good stores etc. without raising concern about the quality of the co2 that these places carry. Non-beverage grade co2 is not intended for consumption, as it is allowed to have impurities such as benzene, ammonia, and carbon monoxide. Brewers say "there is only a small chance and a small amount of these impurites, if any", but the fact is that it only takes a small amount of benzene for you to see negative health effects if you look up benzene consumption online. I was ignorant to co2 grades until the manager at Dick's sporting goods told me he could not sell me co2 for beer because it may contain harmful contaminants. I then did alot of research and he was right. I had some beer left over that I force carbed with the "anonymous" grade co2 and I got a massive headache just drinking one (side effect of benzene consumption). We should be advising people on this forum to only purchase beverage grade co2 instead of any grade you can get your hands on.

 

[oceanic_brew]

Can you post your research so the rest of us can have a look?

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

This talks about different grades of co2:

http://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/16831989-why-the-grade-of-co2-gas-you-are-using-is-important


This talks about consumption of benzene:

http://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/benzene/basics/facts.asp

Here is a good paper that talks about the specifications that companies have to follow to have beverage grade co2. It is regulated by the International Society of Beverage Technologists (ISBT).

http://www.cryogas.com/pdf/Link_Food Gases_Yeoman.pdf

Any brewery, by law must use beverage grade co2 in their beer for human consumption. Why are we not following this same standard?

 

[k1ngl1ves]

From your first link:

"Also consider testing the water in your process as well. Brewers and vintners are keenly aware that water purity is just as important to end quality as the gas that they are using in your process. In fact, hydrocarbons like benzene are more likely to appear in the water in your process then in the gas you are using."

Let's not even start talking about all the dissolved medications in municipal water sources. Even worse, all the lead contaminations sweeping the country.

The FDA also allows a certain amount of benzene and other impurities in "food grade" co2. Just like a number of rat turds in your peanut butter. Lol!

You are far worse off sitting in traffic for 20 minutes a day than what you get from your co2 provider.


Of course, if you're a hypochondriac, then you're screwed no matter what.

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

The attitude of "It's going to be in there anyways, so screw it" is definitely not the way to live. There is quality control on products for a reason. Of course if your a cigarette smoker, your putting tons of benzene in your body anyways and increasing your chance of cancer and death. As a home brewer and also a pharmacy student, I understand that quality and pureness is very important in anything you consume. Why would we not want to follow the highest standard?

 

[k1ngl1ves]

The attitude of "It's going to be in there anyways, so screw it" is definitely not the way to live. There is quality control on products for a reason. Of course if your a cigarette smoker, your putting tons of benzene in your body anyways and increasing your chance of cancer and death. As a home brewer and also a pharmacy student, I understand that quality and pureness is very important in anything you consume. Why would we not want to follow the highest standard?

I think you're missing my point...


If your local municipality doesn't really protect you, what makes you think the FDA will?

Pharmaceutical student? Great! Riddle me this: How many times does the FDA approve a medicine, only to recall it later because of the horrific side effects the medicine caused?


Food Grade is a lie. It's there to make you feel secure. Like taking your shoes off at an airport checkpoint.

 

[rmarshall100]

Thanks for posting!

 

[andrewmaixner]

A really interesting statistic would be for someone to measure the dissolved oxygen before force-carbing, and after, to see how much of the 0.1% that is allowed to not be CO2 in "Beverage" grade, is oxygen -- since that's the main concern with hop degradation.

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

The FDA pulls drugs for side effects that were not found in the phase 2 and phase 3 trials in drugs. Alot of times, medications have long term effects that cannot be determined in the 10-15 year period it takes to develop and approve a drug. That is beside the fact. I guess I am concerned about my health and would like to use the best quality possible in anything for consumption. As far as oxygen in there, that would be interesting.

 

[YeastMode]

TLDR: My limited research on the matter seems to suggest variation regarding handling and containers as opposed to chemical difference in the actual gas from grade to grade.

I have looked into this, but I am far from knowledgeable on the subject. Hopefully, someone with experience int he gas industry can chime in and clear up the discussion or information on the subject. All of these threads, which there are many, come to the same general conclusion: there are actual, different types of CO2, industrial, food grade, and perhaps "pure 99.9%" or medical grade. But finding them for purchase and confirmed as such is not an easy task.

My limited research and investigation (calling businesses) on the subject led me to conclude that, basically, short of filling a tank directly from a hospital, there was an exceedingly high probability that I was buying the same gas from one of two major suppliers in my area (Airgas and Matheson). They were literally supplying everyone. In fact, some places who told me they fill CO2 tanks, when pressed, told me that they would send the tanks directly to Matheson or Airgas either for exchange or if I wanted to keep my tank, I would have to wait an indeterminable amount of time until they had a certain number to send to get refilled. When I asked how they filled their tanks on site, it was from a much larger tank that was delivered by.....Matheson, just like my tank would be, Basically, there would be the functional equivalent.

So I spoke with a friend at Airgas who passed me up the chain and was told basically the same thing, which was that I could theoretically have my tank filled with food grade CO2, but that it would be a pain in the butt unless I was buying deliverable quantity (like a fast food place). They would not be filling my tank from their tanks with food grade CO2. Even if they did, regardless, the difference between the "industrial" and the "food grade" was effectively the certification of the transport containers. I was provided a few names of stores that receive frequent shipments of CO2, and one of them was the welding shop I was going to to begin with.

Since then, I found a small shop that specializes in restaurant refills (which I found, ironically, when searing for a place to fill beergas/nitro) and now I get everything filled there, and its a bit more expensive. But here is the kicker: i have to drop off the tanks and get them when they are ready because they will only fill several tanks at a time, just like Matheson (which is where they buy their gas).

So, I have become resolved to the fact that my CO2 is really no more or less "reliable" or "graded" than any other gas I get as a restaurant or bar, and I don't think about contaminants every time I buy a fountain drink at a gas station. I am not suggesting someone else should not be concerned, I am simply stating that there is basically nothing more I can reasonably do to ensure the quality of my CO2, which I would believe to be true for most other people as well.

 

[Brewmegoodbeer]

It looks like airgas supplies beverage grade co2 to breweries. I did hear of them doing 5 pound tank exchanges with home brewers but ot isnt advertised on the site. Can anyone assure that the exchange program is beverage grade? Here is the link:

https://www.airgas.com/industries/food-beverage-retail/beverages/beer

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I asked this in another thread but got no response. What about calibration gas? Here is 17 liters of 99.999% CO2 for 30 bucks plus shipping. Can this be used for beer carbonation?

http://www.calgasdirect.com/carbon-dioxide-pure-gas-99-999-in-17-liter-cylinder/?gclid=Cj0KEQjw0rm-BRCn85bm8uS-zK0BEiQAHo4vrH2QTTMDDNREQ1zEkHAw0OY5OZEPAgItMzvLmPq1PWcaAlRk8P8HAQ

 

[opercularia]

I asked this in another thread but got no response. What about calibration gas? Here is 17 liters of 99.999% CO2 for 30 bucks plus shipping. Can this be used for beer carbonation?

The 17 L is probably gas at standard temperature and pressure. 5 lb of CO2 is about 1200 L at 21C and 1 atm. Not a good deal!

 

[helibrewer]

I buy from Matheson gas company and they have no grading criteria for CO2, everybody gets the same stuff.

Beverage gas is different, it is a blend of CO2 and Nitrogen

 

[m00ps]

God damnit, so you're telling me now on top of man boobs and cancer, I now am going to get constant headaches from Benzene???

btw, I work at a chemical plant with an abundance of Benzene. I am all too familar with its distinctive sweet smell and effects. Every 3 months I have to take a refresher course on its potentially acute and long term effects. Pretty sure my homebrew is the least of my worries

 

[sonofred]

I buy from Matheson gas company and they have no grading criteria for CO2, everybody gets the same stuff.

Beverage gas is different, it is a blend of CO2 and Nitrogen

No that's called Beer gas. There are several different grades of C02. Beverage grade, medical grade, etc.

 

[YeastMode]

I buy from Matheson gas company and they have no grading criteria for CO2, everybody gets the same stuff.

There are several different grades of C02. Beverage grade, medical grade, etc.

From what I can gather (again, I am not an expert), both of these statements are true, to a degree.

There are, in fact, grades of CO2. Those seem to be highly dependent upon the vessel used to store and transport the gasses for most practical purposes, with some exceptions.

Effectively, we all (you, me, the restaurants, the hospitals, etc) are all getting their gas from the same bulk source.

This question is why I don't trade my tanks. I think there is a much higher practical risk of a containment getting into the tank than getting a contaminated CO2 fill. I purchased aluminum tanks and had them O2 cleaned when hydro'ed as well as had the valves serviced (just like I do every time I have my SCUBA tanks done). As long as they stay under pressure, no water or other undesirables get in and everyone stays happy.

 

[cegan09]

There are, in fact, grades of CO2. Those seem to be highly dependent upon the vessel used to store and transport the gasses for most practical purposes, with some exceptions.

This is true. The grades are far more driven by storage vessels. End use tanks for food grade or medical grade have a liner so the gas does not touch the metal tank. That's really the biggest difference in the whole thing. And since no home brew or welding shop is swapping out lined tanks, it really doesn't matter.

 

[chordwizard]

I went down this road as well with the suppliers in my area. What I was told was the difference was in the container and that beverage grade cost a little more because the container had to be cleaned and handled in such a way that contamination was avoided.
Truth ... story ... ???

 

[bob1852]

. I guess I am concerned about my health

No offense, but if you're concerned about your health, you probably shouldn't drink alcohol.

 

[brewcat]

A really interesting statistic would be for someone to measure the dissolved oxygen before force-carbing, and after, to see how much of the 0.1% that is allowed to not be CO2 in "Beverage" grade, is oxygen -- since that's the main concern with hop degradation.

Might as well do it with welding too. I'm guessing oxygen would be the main contaminant. Welders don't want contaminants in their gases. Something like benzene would be dangerous around a flame.