Need help with a BYO recipe.

[MT2sum]

I like stouts, but not too sweet! I recently used this BYO recipe for an 1879 XXX Dublin stout ….. the bitterness and thickness was just fine, (at a local brewpub, the stout is kinda like beer-flavored water …. ) the flavor was fine, except that it was too sweet for me. I substituted the 3.5 lb of corn sugar for 3.5 lb of raw sugar (jaggery). I'd like to make the same recipe, without messing up the flavor and bitterness, but making it a dry stout instead of a sweet stout. I figure I'm going to have to use less sugar, but what to use in place of it is where I'm stumped, because Jaggery is very Molassesey (is that even a word?) Can anyone tell me a way to change this recipe that without sacrificing the things that I like about this stout?
Here's a link to the recipe - http://byo.com/stories/item/533-dark-roasted-barley

1879 Dublin XXX Stout
(5 gallon/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.086 FG = 1.015
IBU = 87 SRM = 55 ABV = 9.1%

A large stout, what today would be called a foreign extra stout, was made in Dublin in 1879. Most assuredly, there would also be a little sourness brought on by Brettanomyces, giving this beer a finishing acidic twang.
Ingredients

10.25 lbs. (4.7 kg) British 2-row pale malt (2-row)
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) crystal malt (75 °L)
1.5 lbs. (0.68 kg) roasted barley
3.5 lbs. (1.6 kg) corn sugar
10 AAU Fuggle hops (120 mins)(2.0 oz./57 g of 5% alpha acids)
10 AAU Fuggle hops (60 mins) (2.0 oz./57 g of 5% alpha acids)
2.0 oz. (57 g) Fuggle hops (10 mins)
Fermentis Safale S-04 yeast

TIA

 

[goovaerl92]

Well the recipe looks pretty good minus the amount of corn sugar. As of right now, it makes up about 22% of the grain bill which I find a little strange. I know the point is to bump up the gravity of the beer, but even without the added corn sugar, the gravity should be around 1.065 ish which is still pretty high. I would recommend either taking the corn sugar out entirely or bumping it down to around a pound for this particular recipe.

As for the sweetness, what temperature did you mash at? Mashing either too hot or cold is one of the biggest players in ending up with beer that is either "too sweet" or "too dry." Also, where you able to keep your fermentation temperature relatively even? This doesn't so much contribute to sweet or dry as it does to other off flavors, but it still has a direct effect on attenuation which is extremely important. It looks like that you did get the beer down to 1.015, and for a big beer like this that seems about right.

The particular strain of yeast you used, S-04, is know to be a little sweeter, as it leaves some residual sugars behind. If you want the beer to end up a little drier, maybe use S-05 which attenuates fully and leaves very little residual sweetness behind.

Thats my two cents...hope it helps!

Cheers!

 

[youreanimpulse]

Sugar will help it dry out, not sweeten it. Still it's a lot of sugar. I would think a lower mash temp would help. Also a different yeast, maybe WY1028 or WY1084? Or for dry maybe Nottingham?

 

[MT2sum]

I mashed in at 153F, sparged at 170F. As far as fermenting, I'm in Tennessee presently (going back to Montana ASAP ), and in the small hovel we are living in, even with AC, it rocked back and forth between 65 and 85 all summer. Thanks for the hints about S-05 and Nottingham! Could I increase the grains (to maintain the original OG and ABV) while dumping the sugar to maintain the same flavor and such; or would I just be defeating the purpose and screwing up the recipe?

 

[goovaerl92]

Youve probably already brewed this.....but yes, you could just get rid of the sugar and up the base malt in order to achieve the same abv and such. It'll change the color slightly, but you will get a beer with a little better body and mouthfeel than just using the sugar to bump the abv. This results in a drier beer like someone stated above.

Cheers!

 

[Konn]

If it were me I would add ditch the corn sugar and add some black patent and maybe some chocolate malt. Personally I love s04 for stouts, but you might also try Nottingham.

Might also try a different bittering hop (I've had good luck with Perle and Calypso for bittering and then Fuggle for finishing).

 

[youreanimpulse]

+1 for Calypso.

 

[MT2sum]

Thanks for all the comments, I'm going to copy and paste them into my Brewtarget notes for future batches.
THX

 

[MT2sum]

Sugar will help it dry out, not sweeten it.

lol, that sounds backward ..... but since I don't normally use sugar in my beers, I'll take your word for it! THX I'll keep that in mind for future recipes.
I had gone back and forth between S-04 and Nottingham, and finally chose the S-04 .... guess I guessed wrong lol. I don't like using liquid yeasts becuz of the place where we live and also I've only had a couple of starters actually work. I guess I got some bum yeast, and that's the only LHBS that actually cares about the customer (the other two just want you to lay down the money and scram!).

 

[youreanimpulse]

Malt has unfermentable sugars that keep a little sweetness in the beer. They'll be like 65-80% fermentable, let's say. Sugar is 100% fermentable. So the more you add, the more fermentable the wort and the dryer it will finish. More sweetness in a recipe can come from Crystal malts and similar, which have higher percentages of unfermentable sugars.

 

[MT2sum]

THX, I've never brewed a bunch of different beers, usually just same-o-same-o. I figured that after all these years, I should really get out more and experiment ... Maybe an old dog can learn a new trick or two! This one had me stumped becuz I didn't know what I did wrong ... Old age isn't the best thing in life...