Need advise on a 50/50 rye malt and wheat malt ipa?

[Wrathchild]

I'm going to visit my dad for the weekend and he has grown hops for the first time. He has about 7 oz between challenger, Chinook, and cascade. Hes dead set on a 50/50 rye and wheat beer. Im down for the brew but being a rookie, im not sure how beta glucans work. I know it says rye and wheat can gum your sparge up but we biab so I dont think its an issue. Were looking to put 5.5 to 6 gallons into the carboy and dry hop the piss out of it. I think we're gonna bitter in the kettle with pellets and save the whole hops for dry hopping. Would 8 lbs of each rye malt and wheat malt make a good "homemade ipa" with the grain bill and dry hopping with homegrown hops? I would think with full volume and squeezing the bag I wouldn't worry about extraction too much. Not sure what yeast to use either. I was thinking 2 packets of us05.

 

[Beerstein]

For that amount of wheat and rye, I'd use rice hulls and an enzyme.

 

[Wrathchild]

For that amount of wheat and rye, I'd use rice hulls and an enzyme.

Even with brewing in a bag correct? I have enzymes that I bought but it says for must. I have wort. Will these work as well and how much should I use

 

[Beerstein]

Even with brewing in a bag correct? I have enzymes that I bought but it says for must. I have wort. Will these work as well and how much should I use

I'm talking about enzymes like Glucabuster or Ultraflow. These enzymes will prevent stuck sparges and drainage problems. The better drainage, generally speaking, the better efficiency you'll get. This is a problem regardless of using a pot, bag, etc. I don't know what enzymes you have, so I can't advise on how well they work or the usage.

 

[Wrathchild]

Ok so im wrong, I have Ld Carlson yeast nutrient. Food grade urea and diammonium phosphate. Wrong stuff. I know what your talking about now that you said it. It goes in the mash right? Gonna be getting ingredients from southern hills homebrew in Roanoke va so im sure he will have the flow max there. I hope

 

[Beerstein]

Ok so im wrong, I have Ld Carlson yeast nutrient. Food grade urea and diammonium phosphate. Wrong stuff. I know what your talking about now that you said it. It goes in the mash right? Gonna be getting ingredients from southern hills homebrew in Roanoke va so im sure he will have the flow max there. I hope

These enzymes go in the mash. Each enzyme has varying instructions. I think the Novozyme Ultraflow can only be purchased directly and in minimum half kilo quantities. I have some, but not had a chance to use it yet. I've used the glucabuster. Seems to work fine.

 

[AlexKay]

You’ll be fine with BIAB. I wouldn’t worry about enzyme additions. That said, I don’t know how 50/50 wheat/rye is going to taste — it seems like too much rye — but the bag will handle it.

 

[Wrathchild]

These enzymes go in the mash. Each enzyme has varying instructions. I think the Novozyme Ultraflow can only be purchased directly and in minimum half kilo quantities. I have some, but not had a chance to use it yet. I've used the glucabuster. Seems to work fine.

I'm trying to talk him into a more 2 row malt brew with rye and wheat instead of the 50/50 but we will see. Ill check their website to see if he has some type of enzymes. Might have a last minute grain bill change

 

[Wrathchild]

You’ll be fine with BIAB. I wouldn’t worry about enzyme additions. That said, I don’t know how 50/50 wheat/rye is going to taste — it seems like too much rye — but the bag will handle it.

Yeah I told the other guy replying im trying to talk him out of that much rye and wheat. I figure if anything after conversion we can just stirr the living piss out of it for longer to get all we can

 

[Dgallo]

Have you ever brewed a beer with that much rye before? In my eyes 15-20% is a large amount for a hop forward beer. You might miss the nuances of the fresh hops from the spicy rye character

 

[Beerstein]

Have you ever brewed a beer with that much rye before? In my eyes 15-20% is a large amount for a hop forward beer. You might miss the nuances of the fresh hops from the spicy rye character

some of us like it at a lower 10% That’s just my personal preference. I’ve play with malted and unmalted rye: and I actually like unmalted rye more.

 

[Wrathchild]

Have you ever brewed a beer with that much rye before? In my eyes 15-20% is a large amount for a hop forward beer. You might miss the nuances of the fresh hops from the spicy rye character

I see what your saying. No ive only used 1lb of rye malt with 10lbs of pale malt and I didnt even notice the rye spice

 

[Dgallo]

some of us like it at a lower 10% That’s just my personal preference. I’ve play with malted and unmalted rye: and I actually like unmalted rye more.

I’m with you. Only in saisons do I go above 10%. I’m usually at 5-7% in anything else. But I rarely use it at all

 

[hamachi]

I see what your saying. No ive only used 1lb of rye malt with 10lbs of pale malt and I didnt even notice the rye spice

A few months back, I did a Red Rye Ale with 60% Red-X, 20% rye malt, and 20% rye flakes. It came out well with a nice flavor.

But boy was the mash gummy! I do MIAB, and out of 3.5 gallons in, only 1.9 came out in the first running before sparging (compared to 2.4 from the mash for a barleywine I did the week before). When I hoisted the bag, it was like a giant blob compared to my usual mashes. So if you are doing 50% wheat / 50% rye, be prepared for the grain to retain more water than usual. I have never used rice hulls, so I don't know if they would make a difference for BIAB.

 

[Wrathchild]

A few months back, I did a Red Rye Ale with 60% Red-X, 20% rye malt, and 20% rye flakes. It came out well with a nice flavor.

But boy was the mash gummy! I do MIAB, and out of 3.5 gallons in, only 1.9 came out in the first running before sparging (compared to 2.4 from the mash for a barleywine I did the week before). When I hoisted the bag, it was like a giant blob compared to my usual mashes. So if you are doing 50% wheat / 50% rye, be prepared for the grain to retain more water than usual. I have never used rice hulls, so I don't know if they would make a difference for BIAB.

Most definitely noted my friend! Not out of wasting grains but I'd like to see that big gummy mash bag! I gotta learn the hard way. Im getting alot better at barley but the other grains are too new to me but im trying like hell to learn. Trials for me it is

 

[Wrathchild]

For that amount of wheat and rye, I'd use rice hulls and an enzyme.

Have you ever used a yeast nutrient in beer? The ld Carlson packet i have says wine and beer. Ive always thought with all grain brewing there is plenty of nutrients for the yeast. When I pitch into my carboy it looks like its 90% protein and 10% liquid but it does down quick. The yeast seems to root out the sediment quick

 

[hottpeper13]

When I use that much rye or wheat I always dough in at between 100* and 104* for a beta glucan rest, hold for 20 min then add boiling liquor to get to sacrification temp. I MIAB and BIAB depending on quantity and the first wheat wine took like what seemed a day to drain. I couldn't squeeze it out of the bag either,and was 15 points below my estimated OG. Next one with the 104* rest drained in about 2 hours and I hit my OG

 

[Protos]

When brewing in a bag, I never use hulls or enzymes. And I've brewed 100% wheat Wheatwines and 75% rye Roggenbocks. Yes, such grists are slower to drain, but not as much as to make me regretting I didn't add hulls or enzymes.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

A few months back, I did a Red Rye Ale with 60% Red-X, 20% rye malt, and 20% rye flakes. It came out well with a nice flavor.

But boy was the mash gummy! I do MIAB, and out of 3.5 gallons in, only 1.9 came out in the first running before sparging (compared to 2.4 from the mash for a barleywine I did the week before). When I hoisted the bag, it was like a giant blob compared to my usual mashes. So if you are doing 50% wheat / 50% rye, be prepared for the grain to retain more water than usual. I have never used rice hulls, so I don't know if they would make a difference for BIAB.

Rice hulls will help but 50% rye is way high then adding the same amount of wheat is compounding the problem. If you feel you just have to try this use a lot of rice hulls and sparge at 168° to 170° to thin the mash. Good luck may the force be with you

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I'm sorry my reply was meant for Wrathchild.

 

[Wrathchild]

I'm sorry my reply was meant for Wrathchild.

Thanks for the advise man! I dont really want to try this but my pops has an idea in his head. Ive always used barley but im also just over a year into brewing and im starting to get barley down but definitely not rye or wheat. Or at least not in huge quantities like this. Im getting ready to new the 15th brew and its gonna be whatever this thing turns out to be. Like others have said, im kinda scared of messing up his hop flavors with this much rye. Its all fresh picked homegrown hops that were just harvested and dried about a week ago

 

[hamachi]

When I use that much rye or wheat I always dough in at between 100* and 104* for a beta glucan rest, hold for 20 min then add boiling liquor to get to sacrification temp. I MIAB and BIAB depending on quantity and the first wheat wine took like what seemed a day to drain. I couldn't squeeze it out of the bag either,and was 15 points below my estimated OG. Next one with the 104* rest drained in about 2 hours and I hit my OG

In the case without a beta glucan rest, did you sparge? The gummy blob I described in my previous post held on to a lot of water, but thanks to 2 batch sparges, I barely missed my OG.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

he has grown hops for the first time. He has about 7 oz between challenger, Chinook, and cascade.

Is this the weight of the hops dried or still "wet"? (Where "wet" just means picked from the plant.) If they have not been dried then 7 oz of hops is less than 1.5 oz of dried whole cone hops.

 

[Wrathchild]

Is this the weight of the hops dried or still "wet"? (Where "wet" just means picked from the plant.) If they have not been dried then 7 oz of hops is less than 1.5 oz of dried whole cone hops.

Its dried and weighed. Its actually a combo of 4 and I forgot the last one. Its challenger, Chinook, cascade, and centennial

 

[day_trippr]

Please post the results of this adventure!

Cheers!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Hottlepper13 is CORRECT, a bata gluten rest can save your butt. I can't believe I forgot about it. I'm tired

 

[AlexKay]

Thanks for the advise man! I dont really want to try this but my pops has an idea in his head.

See if you can talk him down to 80/20 wheat/rye.

 

[Wrathchild]

See if you can talk him down to 80/20 wheat/rye.

Gonna give it my best. Thanks for the advise!

 

[Wrathchild]

Please post the results of this adventure!

Cheers!

I will absolutely do that but sadly I'm only gonna be with my old man for the brew and pitch. Im leaving it in his hands to dry hop. He has a 6 gallon glass carboy that he uses but im also insisting he ferments in a bucket cause his glass is a small neck and I cant think of how to get 6 or 7 oz of whole hops in there. I suggested the bucket so he can put the hops in a brew bag and dunk. Its gonna be awhile before I taste the final product but ill let you know how the brewday goes and what we actually end up doing

 

[madscientist451]

I made the low ABV "rye-wit" from basic brewing a year or so ago:

Its actually 60/40 torrified wheat/rye malt, but I used malted wheat instead. Its also not an IPA, its a low ABV session beer.
I didn't use any enzymes and the mash was fine. The beer was OK, and I drank it all, but not really sure I want to brew it again.
So I'd suggest brewing the beer as above, but use a moderate amount of your fresh hops since its a session beer, not an IPA.
Here's a wet-hop IPA recipe, perhaps you can adapt it to what you have in mind:
https://beerandbrewing.com/comrade-fresh-hops-superpower-ipa-recipe/

 

[day_trippr]

I will absolutely do that but sadly I'm only gonna be with my old man for the brew and pitch.[...]

That's actually the part I'll be most interested in reading about...

Cheers! (And Vaya Con Dios! )

 

[hottpeper13]

No sparge ,was a full volume BIAB both times, but I now brew 10 gal MIAB and can sparge.

I see a new recipe in my future

 

[Wrathchild]

That's actually the part I'll be most interested in reading about...

Cheers! (And Vaya Con Dios! )

Well my friend heres the results so far. We decided to go 50/50 and it was 8lbs rye malt and 8lbs white wheat and 8oz rice hulls. The local homebrew dude said the rice hulls would be a necessity. We didn't go a glucane rest and mashed at 150 for an hour and ended at 147 degrees. As posted before, we had a bag of gloop that drained soooo slow. I got gloves and squeezed like hell and that actually went well. I ended with 7.5 gallons in the kettle. That being said, it was thick as hell and sweet. We had gravity readings all over the chart with the hydrometer and the refractometer. Calculators said we should be about 1.080 and ended at 1.070 post boil. The boil was the most interesting part. When the hot break occurred, we hit it with a spray bottle of cold water and it boiled over fast so I had to kill the heat. Once it settled down I fired it back up and within 30 seconds it was boiling over again and I had to kill the heat again. This was all before I added the 1.5 oz of whole fresh dry cones. After a half hour of boiling, I still had to keep stirring it to keep it from boiling over and thats the part o dont understand. We would let it boil and without stirring it, it would still boil over in a 16 gallon kettle. Ive never seen anything like it. We got down to just under 6 gallons in an hour with the heat backed off and air cut off to the burner as far as it could go without the flame going out and it was still boiling like a big dog. It wasn't my setup so I didn't know his burner was such a beast. My pops is heading to Alaska soon so he needed to bottle in about 8 days so the homebrew store recommended kviek and we pitched it at 95 degrees and fermented in the shed at 95 degrees. It was super hot in Southern Virginia Saturday. Pitched at 615pm and by 815pm the blowoff tube was going absolutely insane! I've never used kviek and I didnt know you can go as hot as 104 degrees. Its suppose to finish out in 2 days at that temp. Monday we had alot less action so we dry hopped it with 5.5 oz of cones in a steeping sock. When we cracked the lid the wort was just as thick as it could be. Ill compare it to a bowl of cream of wheat when the milk separates on top of the grains. Thick. It still tasted sweet but not good. He just texted me and said he has a bubble about every 30 seconds. I removed the blowoff tube Monday and put a 3 piece airlock in before I left cause the blowoff setup was gunked up and nasty. I dont hold alot of faith in this beer. I dont have a gravity reading post what I said earlier and im thinking it was higher then 1.070 but im going with that. Strange things I've never seen happened with this boil as I've never had a hot break last a half hour into boil. I think I did something wrong. There was one big boo boo. The plastic tip to one of the clamps fell off the clamp and we forgot to get it out before we boiled and when the break first occurred, I saw it so we had to fish it out. It had boiled for about 3 minutes and I dont know if that had any chemical effect. Thats as far as I am now

 

[Wrathchild]

In the case without a beta glucan rest, did you sparge? The gummy blob I described in my previous post held on to a lot of water, but thanks to 2 batch sparges, I barely missed my OG.

I'm never gonna do this much rye without the beta glucan rest as I believe this was the cause to my problems with the gummy smooch causing the boil overs. Well the "almost boil overs". First one did come over the sides a bit but it was mostly foam and I was quick on the draw to kill the heat. Alot of lessons learned here. Only cost $41 so its not terribly if its a loss

 

[Wrathchild]

I'm more wondering about why the boil kept boiling over? I got what I wanted out of the bag but the boil over was insane. It reminded me of making candy. When the sugar boils it gets thousands of small bubbles that rise real quick and I think thats what happened that made it thick. I should have rested at a low temp in the mash definitely and now I know. I dont know if ill try this again honestly. Oh who am I kidding of corse I will!!!

 

[Wrathchild]

I'm never gonna do this much rye without the beta glucan rest as I believe this was the cause to my problems with the gummy smooch causing the boil overs. Well the "almost boil overs". First one did come over the sides a bit but it was mostly foam and I was quick on the draw to kill the heat. Alot of lessons learned here. Only cost $41 so its not terribly if its a loss

It was a full volume biab so no sparge to say. Just alot of stirring and dunking the bag and trying to break more sugar out. I think this was another boo boo

 

[Wrathchild]

In the case without a beta glucan rest, did you sparge? The gummy blob I described in my previous post held on to a lot of water, but thanks to 2 batch sparges, I barely missed my OG.

Sorry I keep posting in the wrong spot. I didnt sparge. It was a full 8 gallons of water that I mashed Into and rested at 150. I just stirred and dunked the bag for what seemed like forever. I rolled the bag around a broom handle and hoisted it out and used 2 chairs to hold it above the kettle. I squeezed the hell out of it and got close to 7.5 gallons back Into the kettle. My volumes were almost spot on but the boil is the conundrum. Ive never boiled over a brew in a 16 gallon kettle much less have it happen for a half an hour Into the boil. I had the stirr and introduce oxygen Into the boil to keep it from boiling over. Weird. Maybe it was the plastic tip of the clamp that fell in but once we got it out it looked to be the same as before so I dont think it dissolved too much rubber into the wort I hope

 

[day_trippr]

Well that sure sounds like an "Adventure In Brewing" I'll be happy to miss for my entire life
I'm guessing enough gooey matter made it into the kettle that it kept promoting foam, and bubbles do tend to beget bubbles.
Cheers!

 

[Wrathchild]

Well that sure sounds like an "Adventure In Brewing" I'll be happy to miss for my entire life
I'm guessing enough gooey matter made it into the kettle that it kept promoting foam, and bubbles do tend to beget bubbles.
Cheers!

Ohhh come on man try it! Maybe you will nail it being the next big thing! Im gonna stick with mostly barley

 

[day_trippr]

lol!