Need advice on changing a recipe to all late addition hopping.

[beervoid]

Hello everybody, I would appreciate some feedback on a recipe I changed.

I want to try this technique that I read about which involves moving all the first boil bittering hops to late addition.
The original recipe is the Kiwi Express by Northern Brewer.

So far I got this...

Original recipe:

MASH INGREDIENTS
- - 11.5-lbs-Malteurop-American-2-row-Pale
- - 0.5-lbs.-Briess-Caramel-20

MASH SCHEDULE: SINGLE INFUSION
Sacch’ Rest: 152° F for 60 minutes
Mashout: 168° F for 10 minutes

BOIL ADDITIONS & TIMES
0.5 oz New Zealand Nelson Sauvin (60 min)

0.5 oz New Zealand Nelson Sauvin (10 minutes)
1 oz New Zealand Motueka (10 minutes)
2 oz New Zealand Wakatu (10 minutes)

DRY HOPS
1 oz New Zealand Motueka,
2 oz New Zealand Wakatu

YEAST
DRY YEAST (DEFAULT): Safale US-05.
Optimum temperature: 59–75°F
LIQUID YEAST OPTION: Wyeast #1056 American Ale Yeast.
Optimum temperature: 60–72°F



New Recipe:

MASH INGREDIENTS
- - 11.5-lbs-Briess - Pale Ale Malt
- - 0.5-lbs.-Weyermann - Carared

MASH SCHEDULE: SINGLE INFUSION
Sacch’ Rest: 152° F for 60 minutes
Mashout: 168° F for 10 minutes

BOIL ADDITIONS & TIMES
Little bit Nelson Sauvin (60 min.... how much? to counter foaming)

2 oz New Zealand Nelson Sauvin (10 minutes.. triple of bittering?)
1 oz New Zealand Motueka (10 minutes)
3 oz New Zealand Wai-iti (10 minutes)

DRY HOPS in 2nd fermentation vessel and 1 week prior kegging.
1 oz New Zealand Motueka,
3 oz New Zealand Wai-iti

YEAST
DRY YEAST (DEFAULT): Safale US-05.
Optimum temperature: 59–75°F

AA values of the hops:
New Zealand Nelson Sauvin AA 11.7
New Zealand Motueka AA 6.4
New Zealand Wai-iti AA 3.0

New Zealand Wakatu AA 6.5-8.5%


So what I did is I shifted the Nelson Sauvin 0.5oz and tripled it adding it to 10mins..
Also since I still have 2 left of it I might as well add that to the dry hop?

I had to substitute both malts for Briess Pale Ale Malt and Weyermann Carared..
I had to subsitute Wakatu for Wai-iti... Wai-iti is lower in AA so I added more (2oz more 1oz in 10min and 1oz in dry) to compensate..

I've read that this recipe is quiet light IPA and I like my IPA's hoppy so.
I got 2oz more of Nelson Sauvin and Motueka lying around here that I might be able to use as well.. any suggestions?

Thanks a million in advance!

 

[EcuPirate07]

Go for it. Late addition hopes add more aroma than bitterness so if that's what you are trying to do I would say go for it. Another option is to skip the last 10 mins and do flame out additions where you just add all those hops at the end of the boil and let them sit in the warm wort for a little bit before transferring to your Fermentation vessel.

 

[Calder]

Confused as to what you are doing. I understand what you want to do, just not sure what you have changed.

Provide a side-by-side comparison of what is called for in the recipe, and what you plan to do. Also provide the hop AAs.

I like to load up the hops at the end of the boil, and reduce or even eliminate the 60 minute addition. But you need to make sure you are still getting the same IBUs in the recipe. Replacing a 0.5 ozs addition at 60 mins with 1.5 ozs at 10 mins is not the same IBUs and the beer may be unbalanced. You may need some of the extra hops.

........ Both Nelson Sauvin and Simcoe are excellent hops ... the more the better. But ... I think I would be wary about mixing the two. They just don't seem to complement each other in my mind. Not saying don't mix them, just think about what you are doing and what you are expecting to get from them.

..... Just got to add, using NS as a 60 minute addition, just seems a waste.

 

[beervoid]

Hello thanks for replying. I agree that using Nelson as bittering is a waste but I currently have no other hops and I wanted to try to stay as true to the original Northern Brewer recipe as possible since im not an experienced brewer.

About IBU's. The way I calculated it is from reading this free ebook called late hops from: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/1249/MJzym06_LateHops.pdf

There it mentions that the bittering % from a 60min boil is 30% and a 10min would give you 10% hence the tripling..

I have updated my post with AA values and original and new recipe.
I will keep simcoe for another brew thanks for advice!

 

[Calder]

I plugged your numbers into my version of BeerSmith (old 1.4 version), and got the following IBUs.

Original recipe:

Tinseth - 51 IBUs
Rager - 51 IBUs


Revised recipe:

Tinseth - 44 IBUs
Rager - 33 IBUs

I assumed Wakatu was 7.5%

I think most people use the Tinseth scale. I always use the Rager scale. I have found that with hop bursting (adding all hops at the end of the boil, as you are doing), Tinseth seems to over-estimate the IBUs of the late hops. You might want some more hops.

With hop bursting, a lot of people will take all the hops and divide them evenly and add them at intervals, such as 20 mins, 15 mins, 10 mins, 5 mins, and 0 mins. The difference in the boil time for each addition will give a slightly different flavor or aroma effect, to make the beer a little more complex.