Malt color and taste illustration

[TroelsHagensen]

Hi,
I stumbled upon the illustration (see below) which I kind of like. Look for the taste you are interested in incoporating in your beer, find a suitable match by color.
BUT! What do you think when it comes to the coffee taste? Starting from around 250 lovibond to around 400, then followed by chocolate?
Most malsters describe pale chocolate as having less coffee than the big darker regular chocolate malt. What do you think?

 

[kevin58]

That looks a lot like one of Randy Mosher's illustrations. If graphics like this are helpful then I recommend his book, Mastering Homebrew.

 

[day_trippr]

^Good call^

https://www.hexnyc.com/2020/05/30/the-art-of-tasting-beer/

 

[TroelsHagensen]

That looks a lot like one of Randy Mosher's illustrations. If graphics like this are helpful then I recommend his book, Mastering Homebrew.

I think it is nifty if there is a specific flavour you are going for. But my question is perhaps more in regards to what is depicted: Do you agree with coffee notes being in the 250-400L range rather than 450L and above as many malsters usually express?

 

[hotbeer]

If it were only that easy to get flavor by matching color then beer brewing wouldn't require as much artistry as it does science.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The diagram in #1 can also be found on the overview page for "Tasting Beer" at Mosher's web site. I would anticipate that the diagram is also in the book, probably in one of the earlier overview chapters.

 

[sibelman]

I love the overlap between the zones, all but the darkest. It emphasizes the complexity of flavor, and hints at the subjectivity of flavor assessment. Maybe some tasters experience more coffee than others in the "chocolate" zone.

I just made a variation of my imperial stout - it gradually has actual coffee, but I left it out this time. Definitely less (no?) coffee flavor, notwithstanding the very dark grains. But I do experience something roughly akin to chocolate.

Grains taste like grains. We compare them to other flavors in the hope that we're being descriptive and analytical, but we don't always agree which wine has notes of dry gravel, or which dark beers evoke coffee.

 

[TroelsHagensen]

If it were only that easy to get flavor by matching color then beer brewing wouldn't require as much artistry as it does science.

I, by no means, see the illustration as a quick solution. It doesn't take much brewing to get to the conclusion that it is more than just numbers.
I do find the scientific side very interesting though - but I don't see that illustration as science. I am asking for experience with malt in a specific color range, not wether brewing is art or science.

 

[DBhomebrew]

You may find illustrations such as this as accurate as "the sun rises in the East". Well, yes, it does. But knowing your latitude (personal taste perception) and day of the year (maltster) will narrow things a bit.

 

[mashdar]

I find I need to taste the malt in question. Charts are interesting in the abstract, but a lot of malts have unique character that doesn't fit a 1- or 2- dimensional color-flavor projection.

E.g. Crisp's brown malt has crazy coffee notes, but is ~65L.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I am asking for experience with malt in a specific color range

The depth of experience you are looking for may be hard to find.

an outline for an an approach for sampling malts

The diagram is #1 is a good summary.

Reviewing flavor wheels of individual malts may be the next step in moving from summary to perception. Wyermann (link) offers a range (eight) of chocolate roasted products.

Then pick a sampling method (e.g. Briess's "Hop Steep Method" (link)) and do some sampling. Back in the later 2010s, this type of sampling was often often be done in home brew clubs using a variety of "British" and "American" crystal.

eta: yes, this approach probably involves a fair amount of repetitious, time consuming work and perhaps duplicate sets of equipment. So it may be easier to do it as a group activity rather than an individual activity.

I find I need to taste the malt in question. Charts are interesting in the abstract, but a lot of malts have unique character that doesn't fit a 1- or 2- dimensional color-flavor projection.

My former club (RIP) had a meeting where we sampled various crystal malts. It was interesting to taste different flavors in malts of the same color from different maltsters.

And after that meeting, I was much better at tasting malt at my former LHBS (RIP).[/B]

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The diagram in #1 can also be found on the overview page for "Tasting Beer" at Mosher's web site. I would anticipate that the diagram is also in the book, probably in one of the earlier overview chapters.

FWIW, the diagram can be found in chapter 3 of the the 2nd edition of "Tasting Beer" (I have the ebook version) which introduces a vocabulary for describing malt, hop, and yeast flavors.

eta: there is a graphic on the overview page for "Mastering Homebrew" (link) that summaries a flavor/aroma vocabulary.

 

[kylewag]

^Good call^

https://www.hexnyc.com/2020/05/30/the-art-of-tasting-beer/

I LOVE this article! Thanks for posting it. I have saved it and will get a lot of use out of it. One thing really bugs me though, and that is that herbaceous is in the floral aroma section and not the herb section. WTF! Herbaceous literally means relating to herbs. So to me, herbaceous, dired herbs and fresh herbs should all be in the Herb category. That's very weird to me. But, otherwise and very nice article.

 

[hotbeer]

I, by no means, see the illustration as a quick solution. It doesn't take much brewing to get to the conclusion that it is more than just numbers.
I do find the scientific side very interesting though - but I don't see that illustration as science. I am asking for experience with malt in a specific color range, not wether brewing is art or science.

In simpler terms... I don't find that I can expect any one particular flavor stands out more based on just color alone.

 

[MaxStout]

Color wheels like that can give a beginner a very rough idea of what to expect from broad categories of malt, based on appearance alone. But those wheels are a blunt tool.
A better step is to look up tasting notes for the specific malts you're interested in.
The best step is to taste it yourself, as others have mentioned upthread.