Major Acetaldehyde in Caffrey's Clone

[nobadays]

This is a first for me.... But I need to get this beer cleaned up. We are hosting a family reunion Thanksgiving for my wife's family - The Caffreys - thought it would be great to have this Caffrey Clone on tap.

Here is the recipe followed by the process:

All Grain
Yeast: Danstar Nottingham (2 packs dry - LHBS had no 1028)
Starter: no
Batch Size: 5.5 (I actually ended up with a bit over 6 gallons in the fermenter)
O.G. : 1.047 (I was ay 1.042 - put it down to dilution)
F.G. : 1.011 ( I was at 1.014 when kegged 2 days ago)
Boil time: 60
IBU: 27.1
Fermentation: 6 days at 64* F - then let rise to (wasn't home) likely 70-75)
Mash: 151*F for 90 minutes (BIAB - I always mash a little longer)
Hops: 0.75oz Northern Brewer @ 60min
0.25oz East Kent Goldings @ 60min
Water treatment: LHBS has a mineral packet pre mixed that has ALWAYS worked well for my brews - gave up on doing my own water chemistry as I liked their mix better.

Process: Mash/boil as indicated, into a Fastfermenter @ 68*F, aerated and 2 packs of Nottingham sprinkled on top about 3pm 09/12/19. Brewjacket insulation put around the fermenter and immersion rod/control unit set in place and set to 64*F. First activity in the airlock about 5 hours later. Really active ferment for the following 3.5-4 days @ 64*F. Evening of day 5 took a gravity reading - @ 1.015. We had to leave the following morning - day 6 - so took another reaading, still about the same and activity in the airlock was negligible. So felt comfortable to unplug the Brewjacket controller and let the temp slowly rise to ambient air... figure with insulation that took 2-3 days to reach air temp of approx 70-75*F, possibly a few degrees warmer.

So, 6.5 weeks in the fermenter - airlock still had Starsan in it so no oxidation, on 10/29/19 transferred into a keg that was filled with CO2 (filled with Starsan then emptied via CO2 pressure). Force carbed then set at 30psi. Tasted after a full day.... green apples big time.
Then this morning, same.

Took the keg out of the kegerator this morning as I'm pretty sure the solution may be to mix u a bit of corn sugar and dump in the keg - after bringing it up to temperature - and reawake the yeast to finish cleaning up.

What temp? How much corn sugar? Does this sound right?

Help! Thanks guys! Cheers!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Hello Major Acetaldehyde, I am Colonel Diacetyl. Return to your post.

 

[nobadays]

Funny! Any help?
Edit... Green apple smell and taste, almost like cider... and I don't like cider!

 

[nobadays]

Well... no suggestions... btw Cavpilot, that really was funny, good job!

So warmed up the keg yesterday using a heat wrap set at 68F. This morning I tapped it and put 3 cups beer into a sauce pan, brought that up to 180F and stirred in 2/3 cup of corn sugar. Poured that mixture into the keg and for kicks added one packet of US-05.... however the yeast had set all summer in my unplugged kegerator, not sure how viable it is.

I think I will put a blow-off on it via the CO2 in post and let it go for 5-6 days and see if the yeast present in the beer, coupled with the US-05 cleans up the acetaldehyde.

 

[TheMadKing]

Well... no suggestions... btw Cavpilot, that really was funny, good job!

So warmed up the keg yesterday using a heat wrap set at 68F. This morning I tapped it and put 3 cups beer into a sauce pan, brought that up to 180F and stirred in 2/3 cup of corn sugar. Poured that mixture into the keg and for kicks added one packet of US-05.... however the yeast had set all summer in my unplugged kegerator, not sure how viable it is.

I think I will put a blow-off on it via the CO2 in post and let it go for 5-6 days and see if the yeast present in the beer, coupled with the US-05 cleans up the acetaldehyde.

So just looking at your recipe I think you overpitched which can cause Acetaldehyde just like underpitching can. 2 packs of yeast with a 1.042 OG is a ton.

I would try krausening with 3-4L of strongly fermenting wort - that will help some but if it's as strong as you say I don't know that you can fully fix it

Edit: I really think you had some yeast health issues here judging by the acetaldehyde and the high FG, which could be from a number of causes but here are the most likely IMO:

-Overpitched into a low OG wort resulting in excessive competition and lack of yeast cell growth
-You LHBS mineral packet contained the wrong stuff so you either overdosed your water with campden and poisoned your yeast, or your pH was too high and your yeast were unhappy
-Underpitched because you used to packets of nottingham that had very low viability (we're talking less than 10%) for whatever reason, excessive heat, age, etc
-Overoxygenated, oxygen in excess of 35ppm is toxic to yeast, but you would need to hit it with pure oxygen for a long time to get this high
-underoxygenating, you pitched so many cells that there wasn't enough oxygen to keep their cell walls healthy
-Your brew jacket thermometer is wrong and you fermented either too cool or too warm (check the calibration in an ice bath, it should read 32-33, pretty close)
-your mash thermometer is wrong and you made a fairly unfermentable wort by mashing too high or too low.

 

[nobadays]

TheMadKing.... Thank you for your great reply! I just got back from my NEW LHBS... found out there was another shop, different town but closer than the big city. The owner there is a past brewmaster at a brewery in that town. He went over the exact same things you just did. After talking he felt over pitching was the most likely cause, that coupled with maybe a poor job aerating the wort (since I've thought about it I can't be sure I even aerated it, always do but it was a rushed brew day.) He felt too that what I did is what he would have tried...probably would have done the Krausening as you suggest but I having no DME, adding a corn sugar solution is ok as well. The idea is just to re-awake the yeast if they are viable, and hope that the US-05 will also help clean it up. Again he thought this was a good idea to try. But, like you he thinks maybe this beer has stabilized and "fixing it," to really taste as it should may not be possible, a partial fix, toning down of the Green Apples, maybe. We'll see in about a week!

Thank you!

 

[nobadays]

Well for what it's worth the beer is bubbling away through the blow off tube. I figure yesterday's activity was primarily due to CO2 coming out of suspension but the keg has been warm now for over 48 hours so I would think most of the CO2 has already escaped... besides that which the current ferment is releasing. I can't see if there is krausen in the keg but a bit of discolored foam has escaped the top of the blow off bottle - which was filled half full of Starsan. I'll give it 4-6 days then carb it up and give it a try!

Still bummed.... I started brewing in the early 90's and though I have made some mediocre beer in the early days, it was all drinkable.... this might be my first dumper. Finger's crossed!

 

[nobadays]

Disaster averted! The corn sugar and fresh yeast did the job. After adding sugar and yeast, I had no idea what FG should be so had to go by airlock activity. The beer bubbled away for 3 days then started slowing down as of Wednesday very little activity... I got pretty tired waiting for a bubble. So pulled the blow off, off the keg and force carbed it, put it back in the kegerator. Chilled down last night... going to gelatin fine it this morning.... but took a taste and was pleasantly surprised that the smell and taste of green apples was gone! I have no idea what this beer is supposed to taste like, and frankly if it weren't for the "Caffrey Clan" coming for Thanksgiving I wouldn't have brewed it, not a big fan of British style ales. It definitely tastes like a British style ale, malty with a touch of hops and a little tart. This probably needs a week or so of conditioning - might eliminate the tartness - but overall.... not bad, not great, I've brewed better. At least it doesn't taste like cider!

 

[TheMadKing]

Disaster averted! The corn sugar and fresh yeast did the job. After adding sugar and yeast, I had no idea what FG should be so had to go by airlock activity. The beer bubbled away for 3 days then started slowing down as of Wednesday very little activity... I got pretty tired waiting for a bubble. So pulled the blow off, off the keg and force carbed it, put it back in the kegerator. Chilled down last night... going to gelatin fine it this morning.... but took a taste and was pleasantly surprised that the smell and taste of green apples was gone! I have no idea what this beer is supposed to taste like, and frankly if it weren't for the "Caffrey Clan" coming for Thanksgiving I wouldn't have brewed it, not a big fan of British style ales. It definitely tastes like a British style ale, malty with a touch of hops and a little tart. This probably needs a week or so of conditioning - might eliminate the tartness - but overall.... not bad, not great, I've brewed better. At least it doesn't taste like cider!

Very glad to hear it! There's nothing worse than having to dump a batch just before family gets to town