Irish Moss & Late Addition conflict

[sully20331]

So I am doing extract boils(partials for now) and was wondering if adding irish moss(or Super moss HB) at 15min, before a late addition of LME at 5min, will affect the clarity of the finished product the way it has before? Will everything still drop to the bottom of the carboy and make the beer nice and clear?

Thanks for any insight.

 

[Double_D]

I would think it would still have some effect. What I question is the purpose of the late addition of LME.

 

[Jdk261]

Maybe a late LME addition for "better" hop utilization? While I think this method is splitting hairs, I could see an IIPA kit giving those instructions or maybe someone with tribal knowledge said that's how they do it...who knows.

The Irish moss should still do its thing, no problem. It just might not grab on to everything in the kettle since the late addition of extract will produce proteins that the moss won't have time to grab.

If you have a hard on for making it crystal clear, a proper and constant fermentation will be necessary...always is; but the late LME addition could cause your beer to be hazy no matter what.

 

[sully20331]

I would think it would still have some effect. What I question is the purpose of the late addition of LME.

Late addition is for hops utilization and color preference. Putting it all in preboil will throw it all off

 

[sully20331]

Thanks guys- I'm not a perfectionist who wants the beer to be as clear as the pros, I just hate the hazy crap that looks like a swamp

 

[Pezman1]

I would think it would still have some effect. What I question is the purpose of the late addition of LME.

As noted, late additions can lead to lighter beers due to less caramelization. However, the biggest benefit from late additions ( at least to me) is along with the lighter color, there is less caramelized TASTE. It is my belief that this is the root cause of the so-called "extract twang".

In theory, hop utilization should be better with late additions - and I'm sure it is, but I can't taste the difference.
Pez.

 

[BrewByLos]

As noted, late additions can lead to lighter beers due to less caramelization. However, the biggest benefit from late additions ( at least to me) is along with the lighter color, there is less caramelized TASTE. It is my belief that this is the root cause of the so-called "extract twang".
Pez.

Nice! Good tip. I'm going to try late extract additions on my next brew. Thanks.

 

[Double_D]

there is less caramelized TASTE. It is my belief that this is the root cause of the so-called "extract twang".

In theory, hop utilization should be better with late additions - and I'm sure it is, but I can't taste the difference.
Pez.

While we're talking about theories, it wouldn't be necessary to boil all that malt extract since it's been sterilized twice, once while reducing to a syrup and then again during the pasteurization of the can. So why boil at all and not just dilute at the end of the boil (like you can with honey for mead). The theory would also take care of that whole "breaking down of the sugars into more simple forms" since it's already been boiled to remove water.

And while we're at it, I believe the "extract twang" actually comes from the can and not how much you boil it.

 

[Pezman1]

While we're talking about theories, it wouldn't be necessary to boil all that malt extract since it's been sterilized twice, once while reducing to a syrup and then again during the pasteurization of the can. So why boil at all and not just dilute at the end of the boil (like you can with honey for mead). The theory would also take care of that whole "breaking down of the sugars into more simple forms" since it's already been boiled to remove water.

And while we're at it, I believe the "extract twang" actually comes from the can and not how much you boil it.

The can could be part of the problem, but many people who have complained of extract "twang" use LME from plastic jugs or DME from plastic bags.

Pez.

 

[frankvw]

So I am doing extract boils(partials for now) and was wondering if adding irish moss(or Super moss HB) at 15min, before a late addition of LME at 5min, will affect the clarity of the finished product the way it has before? Will everything still drop to the bottom of the carboy and make the beer nice and clear?

Thanks for any insight.

Personally (note how I phrase it) I have come to hate Irish moss with a passion. I have used it several times now, in the recommended dosage, and each and every time there was so much gunk in my fermentation bucket that it climbed out of the airlock. I secondaried my last brew (a Belgian specialty beer) yesterday, and there were about two cups of jellified green goop in the fermenter. It clogged up the tap so I was forced to pour the beer out of the primary into the secondary fermenter, and I was unable to crop any of my precious Duvel yeast which I had intended to recover. All in all a bit of a nightmare.

On previous brews I just added a teaspoon of gelatine to the fermenter 24 hours prior to bottling or kegging, and that has always worked fine. I will stick with that. I will never use Irish moss again.

// Frank

 

[frankvw]

Personally (note how I phrase it) I have come to hate Irish moss with a passion. [...] I will never use Irish moss again

Note to self: is there ANY commercial microbrewery that uses Irish moss? Big commercial breweries obviously don't because they filter their beers to death, but among the commercial microbrewers who don't filter, is there even one who uses the stuff? I don't know of any. Think about it.

// FvW

 

[weirdboy]

Personally (note how I phrase it) I have come to hate Irish moss with a passion. I have used it several times now, in the recommended dosage, and each and every time there was so much gunk in my fermentation bucket that it climbed out of the airlock. I secondaried my last brew (a Belgian specialty beer) yesterday, and there were about two cups of jellified green goop in the fermenter. It clogged up the tap so I was forced to pour the beer out of the primary into the secondary fermenter, and I was unable to crop any of my precious Duvel yeast which I had intended to recover. All in all a bit of a nightmare.

On previous brews I just added a teaspoon of gelatine to the fermenter 24 hours prior to bottling or kegging, and that has always worked fine. I will stick with that. I will never use Irish moss again.

// Frank

I think you are over-simplifying the problem. Irish Moss and gelatin work on completely different haze-causing molecules.

Irish Moss and Whirlfloc work on negatively-charged molecules that cause protein haze, whereas gelatin works on positively-charged molecules like polyphenols.

So if you only ever have problems with polyphenols, (e.g. from dry hopping) then go ahead and use gelatin and you should be fine (no pun intended). However if you are making a beer with protein haze, like a beer with a significant amount of wheat for example, then you ought to consider Irish Moss or Whirlfloc.


As to the OP's question, I generally add kettle finings at flameout. Unless you are chilling your wort instantaneously, that should be more than sufficient.