im baaaack. got a few questions

[Soulshine2]

hey guys , ive had a little hiatus from the forums but still brewing. between work , my truck project and other stuff just got off here for a bit of a break.
I've got on a job that isnt so packed full of overtime so i can actually enjoy a weekend again. so my brewing time has come back some. that schedule also allows me to visit my lhbs and put some malts back in my storage bin.

i just brewed #4 of a hef ( NB with weihenstephaner)for my wifes bday . its conditioning since last w/e. I managed to pick up 10 lbs of maris otter and a few 1 lb bags of 2 row ,pilsner, some munich I and II and vienna. Also still have a 10 lb bag of choc malts.

1) I brewed another extract/partial mash (NB ,Red Ale)last fall, still got that dang extracty taste i just cant seem to get rid of. what am I doing wrong? ive got both a kolsch and a weizen extract kit on the shelf and honestly i really dont want to brew them if theyre going to turn out like the red ale did. Every extract ive ever done , tastes the same. bandaidy. i use the same water for AG and i never get that with those.

2) I'm expanding my brew taste and wondering how best to put together an english style brew , an ale im sure. so AG recipes are welcome .

3) ive also got an order on a few lbs of lactose to get back to a milk stout.

and oh btw, 4) my son and his new wife are expecting a little one this fall...(itll be an oktoberfest baby) our first grandchild. I'll be retiring in 16 mos so i'll have lots to do ,lol.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Welcome back!

I brewed another extract/partial mash (NB ,Red Ale)last fall, still got that dang extracty taste i just cant seem to get rid of.

Each combination of brand (Muntons, Briess, ...), style (Pilsen, 'light', ...), and packaging (DME, LME, repackaged by seller, ...) is probably a factor.

If it's an 'extract'-only kit, try brewing the same recipe with a different brand of known fresh-enough DME appropriate for the recipe. For example: if NB uses Briess or their house brand of 'extract', order up some Muntons DME.

As always, more information on source water, basic process steps, etc may be helpful.

 

[Jag75]

Hey soul nice to see ya back ! Bandaid sounds like water issue to me .

 

[3 Dawg Night]

Congrats, grandpa!

 

[Transamguy77]

Nice to see you back! I agree with @Jag75 i think it might be the water. i like you took a bit of a hiatus and am just doing some extract kits just to have some beer around and they don’t have the same taste as my AG batches.

I have gotten kits from Northern Brewer and Adventures in Homebrewing and they are decent, I have found adding all the LME at flameout helps keep that extract taste away.

 

[bracconiere]

A+4 for a come back!

 

[bkboiler]

I'd just crush and toss a campden tab in your water before next brew day. Treats up to 20 gallons to remove chlorine and chloramine.
that might not be the root cause of the issue...it's just a bandaid fix.

 

[PberBob]

+1 with others.

Band-aid flavor is linked to chlorinated water meeting up with tannins or other phenolics. If other recipes work out with the same water, maybe your tannins are out of bounds?
My early problem with that was from grain husk dust getting into the boil. I solved that with longer vorlauf recirculation until it really cleared up. In my case that was around 25 qts of recycle for 6 gallons of wort. It shortened my bottle conditioning time by a week, too.

Ultimately, I upgraded from BIAB to mashing in an upright igloo cooler with vegetable steamer and the bag. Best $30 I’ve spent.

 

[Soulshine2]

Hey soul nice to see ya back ! Bandaid sounds like water issue to me .

thanks Jag, you know every time i post about this i get the same answer. water. wouldn't you think if it was water, id have the same results out of an AG batch? im very puzzled by this. ok, i trust your opinion ...our water is city water and chlorinated, mostly can smell it on sunday mornings. so i think they must treat it saturday end of shift before they leave because i doubt anyone works on Sunday (its Alabama) BUT, like i said , i use the same exact water ,out of the tap/hose...in all of my AG batches . same amount of campden tablet for the same volume of water. its almost useless to get a water sample tested because, well, they're doing something to it constantly. I'm tempted to get a couple 5 gallon jugs of water from the grocery store and try it, just to rule out the city water...or even this. its been raining for almost 2 weeks solid and probably will for another 2 weeks. Im tempted to gather rain water or find a clean local spring creek and brew with that , im going to boil it anyway.

 

[Soulshine2]

I'd just crush and toss a campden tab in your water before next brew day. Treats up to 20 gallons to remove chlorine and chloramine.
that might not be the root cause of the issue...it's just a bandaid fix.

see theres my issue, i do that anyway . same as my AG brews and this never happens . just extracts.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

i use the same exact water ,out of the tap/hose

If you are brewing 'extract' with tap water (and don't know the mineral content), try brewing a batch with distilled, RO, or known low mineral content water.

 

[Soulshine2]

Welcome back!


Each combination of brand (Muntons, Briess, ...), style (Pilsen, 'light', ...), and packaging (DME, LME, repackaged by seller, ...) is probably a factor.

If it's an 'extract'-only kit, try brewing the same recipe with a different brand of known fresh-enough DME appropriate for the recipe. For example: if NB uses Briess or their house brand of 'extract', order up some Muntons DME.

As always, more information on source water, basic process steps, etc may be helpful.

no, im not going to buy more extract kits to rule out if its the water or fresh or not. ill just keep buying grains , i prefer that anyway. My wife bought me 3 of these last fall , i have 2 left . theyre both NB extracts kits with maybe 1 lb of a specialty grain for style i guess. im almost thinking of using the LME for a distillation mash just to use it up and save the specialty grains for my AGs.

 

[Soulshine2]

If you are brewing 'extract' with tap water (and don't know the mineral content), try brewing a batch with distilled, RO, or known low mineral content water.

i might .

 

[Soulshine2]

+1 with others.

Band-aid flavor is linked to chlorinated water meeting up with tannins or other phenolics. If other recipes work out with the same water, maybe your tannins are out of bounds?
My early problem with that was from grain husk dust getting into the boil. I solved that with longer vorlauf recirculation until it really cleared up. In my case that was around 25 qts of recycle for 6 gallons of wort. It shortened my bottle conditioning time by a week, too.

Ultimately, I upgraded from BIAB to mashing in an upright igloo cooler with vegetable steamer and the bag. Best $30 I’ve spent.

i appreciate your input ,but....youre not understanding my issue. it cant be chlorine reacting with tannins from husks...this is issues with prepackaged extracts.

 

[Soulshine2]

Welcome back!


Each combination of brand (Muntons, Briess, ...), style (Pilsen, 'light', ...), and packaging (DME, LME, repackaged by seller, ...) is probably a factor.

If it's an 'extract'-only kit, try brewing the same recipe with a different brand of known fresh-enough DME appropriate for the recipe. For example: if NB uses Briess or their house brand of 'extract', order up some Muntons DME.

As always, more information on source water, basic process steps, etc may be helpful.

no DME, its all LME and a little bag of specialty grain.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

ill just keep buying grains , i prefer that anyway.

Nothing wrong with that (going all grain and never looking back). It's your choice to not learn how to brew good beer with 'extract'.

 

[Soulshine2]

Nice to see you back! I agree with @Jag75 i think it might be the water. i like you took a bit of a hiatus and am just doing some extract kits just to have some beer around and they don’t have the same taste as my AG batches.

I have gotten kits from Northern Brewer and Adventures in Homebrewing and they are decent, I have found adding all the LME at flameout helps keep that extract taste away.

Now THERES something i'll have to try. so explain how you do it then. are you basically taking your water volume to boil for hop schedule only then adding your extracts at flame out ? are you thinking im bottom burning the extract?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

All the extract at end of boil: https://www.baderbrewing.com/content/boil-hops, includes the basic math for adjusting hop amounts (just after step 10) without recipe software.

 

[Soulshine2]

Nothing wrong with that (going all grain and never looking back). It's your choice to not learn how to brew good beer with 'extract'.

im not ,not wanting to learn how to make extract beer . I just seem to have the same recurring problem that i dont really understand and I know when to stop beating a dead horse. ill try the addition of the LMEs at flameout before I totally give up. if nothing else, i'll just distill it so i dont just waste it down the drain.

 

[Soulshine2]

All the extract at end of boil: https://www.baderbrewing.com/content/boil-hops, includes the basic math for adjusting hop amounts (just after step 10) without recipe software.

thanks, that might just do it. i'll try that. in fact . if the rains continue today as predicted itll be a good brew day.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If you brew today, please consider that 1) using distilled or water with known mineral content, and 2) knowing the packaged date and storage conditions of the LME will help with troubleshooting.

 

[Soulshine2]

If you brew today, please consider that 1) using distilled or water with known mineral content, and 2) knowing the packaged date and storage conditions of the LME will help with troubleshooting.

with regards to store bought water...what do you suggest . with no way to add minerals i dont have . im left with the choices of distilled which isnt exactly easy to find ,or the various brands of filtered purified drinking waters and the bottled spring waters . i honestly want to get 2 of the 5 gallon jugs and find a free flowing spring .

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

with regards to store bought water...what do you suggest

Know that the water has low mineral content to avoid potential unexpected (or undefinable) flavors from minerals.

See rows 141, 142, and definitely row 143 of the "0. Instructions" tab of BrunWater1.25.xlsx (the free download).

Some people find brands of spring water with mineral content information at the brand's web site. Some use RO water (when distilled is not available) and use a TDS meter as a 'double-check' of water quality. Others, when troubleshooting, will take the time to find distilled water.

 

[PberBob]

i appreciate your input ,but....youre not understanding my issue. it cant be chlorine reacting with tannins from husks...this is issues with prepackaged extracts.

Got it. I was picturing the partial mash/grain steeping scenario where the water gets too hot, or worse, the pH* way too high. I’ve had grain particles from the steeping bag get through and stay in the boil. Mostly it gives a tannic astringency.

There are plenty of extractable tannins from hops, too. That’s why it’s easier to fix in the water.

I’ve never been a true believer in campden, so now I start with RO. Most of the fill-your-own store waters are RO. Our municipal water is ‘blended for flavor’ and really high iron, so I got an under-sink unit a long time ago.

*pH might be an angle to explore, too. AG has more buffering capacity than extracts, I think.

Good luck with your next batch!

 

[Transamguy77]

Now THERES something i'll have to try. so explain how you do it then. are you basically taking your water volume to boil for hop schedule only then adding your extracts at flame out ? are you thinking im bottom burning the extract?

I heat up 3 gallons of water to about 150 something and then add my steeping grains and let them steep for 20 or so mins and the crank up the heat till boiling, I then follow whatever the hop schedule is and at flame out I add all my LME and then chill to pitching temp.

when I first started brewing I was wondering why my light colored beers were dark and a guy in my home brew club told me to brew them this way to keep them light. Well I just started brewing all my extracts this way and I noticed that the taste was different, hope this helps.

 

[Beermeister32]

I agree it is the water. If you get the problem on extract batches but not on all grain, it is because the extract already has minerals in it from their process. The all grain has minerals from your local water.

So, when you are doing your brewing with extract, you are getting twice the minerals - those from their process plus the minerals from your water.

I’d run a small pilot batch with distilled water and see if it doesn’t clean this up.

 

[Soulshine2]

If you brew today, please consider that 1) using distilled or water with known mineral content, and 2) knowing the packaged date and storage conditions of the LME will help with troubleshooting.

i did brew yesterday. i just brewed an AG Maertzen for celebrating the little one coming ....just in time for Oktoberfest. I'll run for the RO water for the extracts when i get more time. i appreciate your explanations .

 

[Soulshine2]

I agree it is the water. If you get the problem on extract batches but not on all grain, it is because the extract already has minerals in it from their process. The all grain has minerals from your local water.

So, when you are doing your brewing with extract, you are getting twice the minerals - those from their process plus the minerals from your water.

I’d run a small pilot batch with distilled water and see if it doesn’t clean this up.

the extract instructions really need to to tell the brewers this information. it would be very helpful. after 6 yrs of brewing i never knew this. thanks

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

the extract instructions really need to to tell the brewers this information

How to Brew, 4e (2017) chapter 1.

 

[govner1]

thanks Jag, you know every time i post about this i get the same answer. water. wouldn't you think if it was water, id have the same results out of an AG batch? im very puzzled by this. ok, i trust your opinion ...our water is city water and chlorinated, mostly can smell it on sunday mornings. so i think they must treat it saturday end of shift before they leave because i doubt anyone works on Sunday (its Alabama) BUT, like i said , i use the same exact water ,out of the tap/hose...in all of my AG batches . same amount of campden tablet for the same volume of water. its almost useless to get a water sample tested because, well, they're doing something to it constantly. I'm tempted to get a couple 5 gallon jugs of water from the grocery store and try it, just to rule out the city water...or even this. its been raining for almost 2 weeks solid and probably will for another 2 weeks. Im tempted to gather rain water or find a clean local spring creek and brew with that , im going to boil it anyway.

I notice you’re using a hose from your tap to fill your kettle. What type of hose? Is it a food grade hose or a garden hose?
If it’s a garden hose, that’s your problem!
If you mentioned this earlier I didn’t see it as I skimmed through your posts.

 

[Soulshine2]

I notice you’re using a hose from your tap to fill your kettle. What type of hose? Is it a food grade hose or a garden hose?
If it’s a garden hose, that’s your problem!
If you mentioned this earlier I didn’t see it as I skimmed through your posts.

plain garden hose. i use it for AG brews too and it doesnt taste like that like it does with extracts. i'm going with the extracts already have minerals theory. i'll try the RO or distilled next extract brew and i'll add the extract at the end of the boil. that combination all sounds very plausible.

 

[Soulshine2]

How to Brew, 4e (2017) chapter 1.

i dont have that book but it makes perfect sense now that i know

 

[Soulshine2]

How to Brew, 4e (2017) chapter 1.

found it online, reading it now. Thank you !! still, extract instructions never tell you to use bottled water. but should.

 

[govner1]

plain garden hose. i use it for AG brews too and it doesnt taste like that like it does with extracts. i'm going with the extracts already have minerals theory. i'll try the RO or distilled next extract brew and i'll add the extract at the end of the boil. that combination all sounds very plausible.

I would encourage you to change to a food safe hose. You can use one intended for potable water (RV) or make one from 3/4” clear hose similar to beer line just larger diameter.

 

[Dancy]

For all the effort and money it takes to brew AG beer, I can’t for the life of me imagine using tap water out of a hose. I pay around .89 cents a gallon for RO or distilled water and ever since I bought a pH meter and mineral salts, my beers have turned out much better.

 

[govner1]

If you’re going to use tap water(I do since our water is quite good) I’d also recommend a filter. I fill my BK directly from a hose bib just off my water heater & use a filter system designed for hot water. You need to fill slowly for the filter to be effective.

 

[hout17]

For all the effort and money it takes to brew AG beer, I can’t for the life of me imagine using tap water out of a hose. I pay around .89 cents a gallon for RO or distilled water and ever since I bought a pH meter and mineral salts, my beers have turned out much better.

I think this really depends on the quality of the tap water for brewing. My water is very good after sending off a sample to Wards Lab. No reason not to brew with it and adjust the chemistry to different styles.

 

[Dancy]

I think this really depends on the quality of the tap water for brewing. My water is very good after sending off a sample to Wards Lab. No reason not to brew with it and adjust the chemistry to different styles.

I’m a little jealous . Bringing home gallons of water gets a little old.