How’s my transfer method?

[Immocles]

Hey folks.
I’m still only about a year of kegging experience and have probably kegged 8 beers in that time. I use a cold crash guardian to capture fermentation gas for the crash and the transfer. Normally, I’ve just been attaching a hose to the beer out post and opening the prv on the keg to transfer, but the aroma I smell leaving the keg bothers me. Plus I hadn’t been filling the keg w star San and pushing it out completely. Only swishing star San around and dumping it and then purging a few dozen times. I was trying to save gas, but I’ve probably been using more my way, sigh.
Today, I found an extra gas QD and decided to try something different. I filled the keg w sanitizer, pushed it out and detached all my hoses. I pulled the prv and attached a hose to the gas post, the opening being under sanitizer. Then attached my liquid connects as normal, opened the spigot, and had a beer while I watched the fermenter drain. The gas hose was bubbling constantly and I never had to pull the prv and be bothered by all the citra leaving the fermenter.
Basically, is this a sound practice? Am I missing anything glaring? It was easy enough, and doesn’t require any more various items to purchase and/or DIY.

Picture included. Don’t judge my mess too much.

 

[Junker Jörg]

Don’t have much to say to your post, but I love seeing the Schell’s boxes. Went to college there

 

[day_trippr]

The basic operation is sound - I can't use gravity with carboy fermentors so I have to use a CO2-push but I also snap a "bubbler" tube on the gas post into a small bucket of water so air can't back into the keg somehow

I was curious why you still opened the keg prv after pushing out the sanitizer. Doesn't seem necessary...

Cheers!

 

[Immocles]

I was curious why you still opened the keg prv after pushing out the sanitizer. Doesn't seem necessary...

Well, I panicked a little.
I wasn’t watching my pressure gauge and didn’t like how high the psi was when I was done pushing the sanitizer through. I figured if I attached the beer line, it would back fill into the fermenter and if I attached the gas line with the open hose in the tub of water, I had visions of a sort of cartoon jet ski keg cruising across the basement. Wouldn’t attaching the hose and/or pulling the prv basically be the same thing?

 

[odie]

looks fine.

I never did anything like that. Never even thought about it. I just opened the keg lid and put the hose in and open the carboy valve. Then just blast & purge a few times. Never knew about oxidation.

But now I ferment and serve in same keg so I am beyond transfers for the most part.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Basically, is this a sound practice? Am I missing anything glaring? It was easy enough, and doesn’t require any more various items to purchase and/or DIY.

In this case you did purge the keg, right? I do something similar but run the line from the gas out post back to the top of the fermenter. Then it is more of a closed loop and you are filling the headspace of the keg with the CO2 from the keg instead of air/oxygen. I suspect pulling a little oxygen into the headspace during the transfer will not cause much damage, but filling with the CO2 from the keg is free and very little effort.

 

[RCope]

I think your process is sound. I don't think @CascadesBrewer realizes you are pulling CO2 from the Cold Crash Guardian as the beer drains. When I purge my kegs, I use about 10 psi to push out the starsan, but first I push out about 16oz then purge cycle that small keg headspace about 10 times in case there was a bit of air in the headspace. Then I use the keg CO2 to purge the transfer lines right before connecting.

I'm surprised that gravity alone allows a full transfer, I use 1-2 psi rigged through a quick disconnect to help push it through, that way I also don't need the CO2 balloon. But if you have enough CO2 in that balloon (3+ gallons!) then added CO2 would not be necessary...Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

Your process looks to be basically sound.

Normally, I’ve just been attaching a hose to the beer out post and opening the prv on the keg to transfer, but the aroma I smell leaving the keg bothers me.

There is nothing you can do about this, short of having some kind of contraption that will condense the hop aromatics out of the keg exhaust stream and reinject it into the beer.

Some hop aromatics will escape into the keg headspace while you fill. All of this will be lost when you push the headspace gas out of the keg, doesn't matter if you vent directly to air, or thru a submerged hose. The aromatics are in the headspace gas, and they leave with the headspace gas.

Brew on

 

[Immocles]

In this case you did purge the keg, right? I do something similar but run the line from the gas out post back to the top of the fermenter. Then it is more of a closed loop and you are filling the headspace of the keg with the CO2 from the keg instead of air/oxygen. I suspect pulling a little oxygen into the headspace during the transfer will not cause much damage, but filling with the CO2 from the keg is free and very little effort.

Correct, I I did purge the keg. I hadn't done it the same way in the past because I was looking to conserve gas.

I think your process is sound. I don't think @CascadesBrewer realizes you are pulling CO2 from the Cold Crash Guardian as the beer drains. When I purge my kegs, I use about 10 psi to push out the starsan, but first I push out about 16oz then purge cycle that small keg headspace about 10 times in case there was a bit of air in the headspace. Then I use the keg CO2 to purge the transfer lines right before connecting.

I'm surprised that gravity alone allows a full transfer, I use 1-2 psi rigged through a quick disconnect to help push it through, that way I also don't need the CO2 balloon. But if you have enough CO2 in that balloon (3+ gallons!) then added CO2 would not be necessary...Cheers!

Absolutely love the cold crash guardian. Im a smaller batch brewer (mostly 3G, some 4G, and very few at 5G), and for the 3 gallon batches, the balloon holds enough to "crash" (to ambient basement temps, around 47-50F at the coldest time of the year), and transfer to keg. I normally have to pull the stopper on my fermenter just around 4G for the bigger batches.

Your process looks to be basically sound.



There is nothing you can do about this, short of having some kind of contraption that will condense the hop aromatics out of the keg exhaust stream and reinject it into the beer.

Some hop aromatics will escape into the keg headspace while you fill. All of this will be lost when you push the headspace gas out of the keg, doesn't matter if you vent directly to air, or thru a submerged hose. The aromatics are in the headspace gas, and they leave with the headspace gas.

Brew on

Thats basically what I had figured, but for whatever reason, this seems more 'closed' than just keeping the prv pulled. I can't be hurting, anyways.

 

[mac_1103]

some kind of contraption that will condense the hop aromatics out of the keg exhaust stream and reinject it into the beer

Somebody needs to get on this ASAP!

 

[doug293cz]

Somebody needs to get on this ASAP!

Not sure there is enough of a market to make development worthwhile. I would envision something like a cold trap, which is like a counterflow heat exchanger, but down at liquid nitrogen (or maybe dry ice) temps. A glycol type chiller that can get down to -40°, might be enough. In any case, it doesn't sound like an inexpensive device.

Brew on

 

[beersk]

Well, I panicked a little.
I wasn’t watching my pressure gauge and didn’t like how high the psi was when I was done pushing the sanitizer through. I figured if I attached the beer line, it would back fill into the fermenter and if I attached the gas line with the open hose in the tub of water, I had visions of a sort of cartoon jet ski keg cruising across the basement. Wouldn’t attaching the hose and/or pulling the prv basically be the same thing?

It does bubble a lot but I don't worry about it. That's how I do it.
I've actually done this by accident...hooked up the fermenter to the keg before letting the gas out of the keg...nice little stirring up of the yeast in the fermenter. lol not fun! Your kegging procedure looks good. I do something similar for 5 gallon batches, except I don't worry about the air getting into the ferment as it's transferring. The beer on top exposed to air isn't making it into the keg and I doubt the whole batch will be oxidized from 10 minutes of exposure.