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jgarretson

jgarretson

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We're moving into a new build home the end of this year and I have some serious home theater purchasing to do. I've had crap HTIB systems for way too long and with the new house comes new gear.

I have a 60" Vizio tv that will be going with us.

Here's the key wants:
First and foremost, SWMBO is not tech savvy and will need something simple.
Simple blu ray player
No huge ass black AVR; I hate those things and couldn't give a rip about Dolby THX surround mega concert hall mode.
Looking at bookshelf speakers like the B&W 685 series
Looking at integrated amps or something similar
We listen to a ton of streaming music though Pandora and Spotify
Want to connect blu ray to speakers, maybe want to connect tv to speakers
Want expansion capability and wireless functionality for sound on the deck out back, basement and master bedroom so think Sonos or Denon Heos


Does anyone have any suggestions or experiences with this type of setup? Don't have a huge budget either so suggesting a $4000 product won't do me too much good!
 
I've built a couple of home theaters, but it's been a few years since the last one. A few random thoughts…

Connect a BR player to your TV - simple set up.

Your TV probably has speaker outputs so run the external speakers from there if desired.

Stream music as you are doing right now.

Not sure how to stream (BT) sound from your BR player.

A HTPC sounds like it may do a lot for you, but they are definitely NOT in the simple to operate category.

Lots of good ideas at avsforum...
 
I don't see how you are going to get a totally integrated system without the huge ass black AVR. Without that, I think you'll have to go with the BR to TV to external speaker (some sort of soundbar); then have a separate Sonos system you run from a smartphone out to your deck, MBR, etc.

+1 to AVSforum
 
The only way I can figure to get around no avr is to use powered speakers. Look to cheaper studio monitors. Take line out of the TV and go from there. But honestly, that's a dumb idea for anything more than 2 channel. If you want surround, you have to go avr.
The only other way is to build a crossover in front of your amps, then amp the sub out of the crossover.
And that would be a huge mess taking more money and much more space.
Maybe you could look into a blue sky speaker system? They ship with a surround controller and are quite small, but way better than a box of stuff from walmart
 
If you want it sight unsee, just build some in wall shelving with some cabinet doors. Avr goes in there. If you are building, go ahead and wire the walls for surround. It costs little and is super easy if you are still in the framing stage. See monoprice.com for cheap wall plates, etc. Even if you don't ant surround now, I'd still do it. Will be a perk to the house if you ever want to resell.
Plus, all wiring can go to your hidden avr. Nothing to see but a TV on the wall.

Run hdmi as well. Btw.

Another cool perk to an avr is most decent ones have multiple zones, so you could run cable to the adjacent kitchen and mount in wall speakers above the cabinets and kick out some jams over omlets in the am, or keep an ear on the Packers while u grab another cheese plate and some homebrew.
 
Don't think OP has an aversion to an AVR, just not looking for anything massive like the old Denon AVR5805 or Yamaha RXZ9.

The Denon HEOS wireless system looks right for your needs but awful spendy considering you are building thus wiring access is a snap.
 
I agree with the posts above, I wouldn't try to do what you're looking for without an A/V reciever. Look around, if it's the black color you're against, there are some in silvers and whites. And Sony is putting out some pretty sleek looking ones - minimal buttons on the unit, etc.

jgarretson said:
First and foremost, SWMBO is not tech savvy and will need something simple.
Click to expand...
The KEY here is a Logitech Harmony remote. (I have the 650) Plug it into your computer, tell it exactly what devices you have (model # of your TV, Blu-Ray player, etc.), and then it walks through the various activities. For instance, the program will ask which devices you use to watch TV (TV, cable tuner, AVR); which one controls the channel, and which one controls the volume, and what each device needs to be set to. Then it will ask the same for movies, and streaming music, etc. Once you have answered all the questions, it downloads the correct codes onto the remote and programs it.

The top of the remote has buttons for "Watch TV" "Watch Movie" "Listen to Music", etc. Press "Watch TV", and it turns the TV, cable box, and AVR on, and switches each device to the correct inputs. My old setup took two remotes and three button presses to watch TV; this does it all in one. Want to go from watching TV to watching a movie? Press "Watch Movie", the remote turns off the cable box, powers on the Blu-Ray, changes all of the inputs, and away you go.

Awesomely simplifies a complex home theater for those that have trouble with them.
 
fwiw, I've had His and Her 650 remotes for years.

His is used all the time. Hers immediately became a backup His. She won't use it, "too complicated"...

Cheers!
 
I've the Harmony One. Haven't had my HT theater set-up and running in over a year but the Harmony One made using an overly complicated HT a such breeze even my 4 year old knew what to do on the rare occasion something went wrong.
 
Rockn_M said:
This might be of some interest. I believe there is only 2 wires and everything else is wireless.

http://www.sonos.com/shop/wireless-5-1-surround-sound-package
Click to expand...

^^ seriously consider this. These things are pretty sweet and I think your wife could master it. They're expensive, but also modular, so you could add the patio and other stuff later. They are wireless (but require power).

I have the bigass Yamaha AVR and love it, but my wife can't get anything working - she needs help. I can have different sources and volume, etc for patio and house. I have whole-house audio that it will drive. It's very pandora friendly. I can operate it remotely from a Yamaha app on my phone, including turning it on. I think the sonos thing will do all of that, and still be simple to use.
 
passedpawn said:
I have the bigass Yamaha AVR and love it,
Click to expand...

Which one?

I have the RXZ9 and love it too but am really disappoint that they opted out of upgrades. That receiver would still be tits today IF it had updated audio codex and HDMI expansion. IIRC, the Denon AVR5805 went that route before Bluetooth became a thing.

That said, I am still not exactly clear on what teh OP considers "bigass" black box. the standard 7" receiver, or the truely massive 13" behemoths.
 
You don't have to spend a fortune to get a good system. Yamaha makes some good receivers what are wifi/bluetooth enabled and has an app to download. I think most brands have this option. You can always get a credenza to house your components then you will not see anything and you can control your receiver functions with your phone.

Definitely go with a 7.1 system. I have Klipsch and I can say they ROCK. Make sure all your speakers are the same brand as it does matter. Center channel speaker is key.

Just my .02
 
Keep an eye at newegg.com for deals. I got my Martin Logans there at a steal. Think I payed 650 shipped and haven't regretted it.
 
I saw the OP said he doesnt have a huge budget (ie. no suggesting a $4K product) What is your overall budget?

A simple 5.1 system can be done reasonably with quality components. That being said, an AVR (Big or not) is where your money should go. Quality components are important to have for longevity.

I've had Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, and Pioneer Elite, and so far the two front-runners for length of life has been Denon and Pioneer Elite. My Marantz was a $2K POS that I wish I could take to the shooting range and pop off a couple shots at.

If you are looking for some really great speakers and sets Hsu Research makes some great speakers for an affordable price.
http://www.hsuresearch.com/

A nice receiver that is somewhat a good deal is the Denon S series is good although I would say go for the X series if possible:
Both have capability to stream Pandora, Spotify, etc and are very easy to use. They have iPhone apps that pretty much control everything.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1160588-REG/denon_avr_s910w_7_2_channel_uhd_a_v_receiver.html

BluRay players are cheap and you can't go too wrong on most selections. I have an affinity for Panasonic ones, but that is just me. Also most BD Players have streaming capabilities built in already, so if you do go with just powered bookshelf speakers, you could use that as your streaming device and skip the AVR all together.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Which one?

I have the RXZ9 and love it too but am really disappoint that they opted out of upgrades. That receiver would still be tits today IF it had updated audio codex and HDMI expansion. IIRC, the Denon AVR5805 went that route before Bluetooth became a thing.

That said, I am still not exactly clear on what teh OP considers "bigass" black box. the standard 7" receiver, or the truely massive 13" behemoths.
Click to expand...

RX-V675. It's about 10 levels lesser than yours :) But, it had exactly the features I wanted. I run 7.1 in my family room. All speakers are Polk. It doesn't have bluetooth without an adapter, but I have ethernet plugged into it so I don't care.
 
passedpawn said:
RX-V675. It's about 10 levels lesser than yours :) But, it had exactly the features I wanted. I run 7.1 in my family room. All speakers are Polk. It doesn't have bluetooth without an adapter, but I have ethernet plugged into it so I don't care.
Click to expand...

As a base multi-channel audio pre-amp/amp the RXZ9 is still a workhorse. The video section is woefully out of date. The faroudja scaler did wonders for CRT and S-Video/Composite/Component but just makes a mess of everything when piping to a modern flatscreen. So, now it is 80 pounds of half functionality.
 
for a good 5.1 set of budget speakers, i'd suggest looking at the energy take classics (or the even cheaper monoprice knockoffs). i can't vouch for the sub that comes with the set though. works well in a small to medium size room (12x12ish)
 
atom said:
for a good 5.1 set of budget speakers, i'd suggest looking at the energy take classics (or the even cheaper monoprice knockoffs). i can't vouch for the sub that comes with the set though. works well in a small to medium size room (12x12ish)
Click to expand...

For giggles I compared performance of a $20 Radio Shack branded bookshelf speaker to that of a B&W DM604 Series 3 tower with a Sencore Real Time Analyzer and a Sencore sound generator.

Obviously the DM604 had performance in a lower frequency range than the bookshelf but across the same range (40 to 40, IIRC) the bookshelfs had a flatter response with lower distortion.
 
I disagree that the receiver is where your money should go. That said, you need an avr with at least the minimum power you require for your space. a $300 receiver or a $2k receiver is not going to make a huge difference, but powered sub, and better speakers will.

The avr doesn't ned to give you "Dolby THX surround mega concert hall mode", but it will decode the surround signal. My current preference is one that uses Audessey, as it really changes everything after you do an in-room calibration. Everything you do should be built for and around the room it's in.
 
atom said:
for a good 5.1 set of budget speakers, i'd suggest looking at the energy take classics (or the even cheaper monoprice knockoffs). i can't vouch for the sub that comes with the set though. works well in a small to medium size room (12x12ish)
Click to expand...

I have the Monoprice set and highly recommend them for a budget system. I spent under $400 for my whole system and for the price, I couldn't be happier. The Monoprice speakers are $200 and are near identical to the Energy take classics. They sound really good and the sub is solid.

I bought a refurbished Denon receiver and while it is not the highest end out there, it is a solid budget receiver and I could not even tell it was refurbished, looked and works as if it were brand new.
 
Thanks for all of the replies. To clarify what I meant by big ass black box, it's literally any AVR that is a big ass black box whether 7" tall or 13" tall.

I'm going to go stereo because I don't want surround sound. I don't like it. I don't want speakers mounted everywhere in my room.

I'm looking at the Sonos Connect:Amp or maybe the Monitor Audio A100 amp. Both are integrated amps that are just simple. Plus they aren't giant black boxes. Anyone know of similar integrated amps with interesting industrial design? The Peachtree Audio units look great but are a little expensive.

My total budget to get started is probably $1000-1200.
 
I'm gonna throw this out, and should probably bite my tongue. I mean no disrespect. But, having a 60" tv and a Bluray signal that usually includes Master Audio sound, crafted by the director to be a symbiotic experience with the visuals - makes no sense. That's like putting a 4 cylinder engine in a Lamborghini.

Home theater sound can be installed very stealth with inwall speakers or very small L, R, LR, RR, center with a small sub (not HTIAB, or Bose crap), creating a huge 3D psychoacoustic bubble of sound that literally comes from everywhere and nowhere. There are films where I could just sit and listen to it, and have my eyes closed!

Each to their own though and I'm not judging.
 
Komodo said:
I'm gonna throw this out, and should probably bite my tongue. I mean no disrespect. But, having a 60" tv and a Bluray signal that usually includes Master Audio sound, crafted by the director to be a symbiotic experience with the visuals - makes no sense. That's like putting a 4 cylinder engine in a Lamborghini.

Home theater sound can be installed very stealth with inwall speakers or very small L, R, LR, RR, center with a small sub (not HTIAB, or Bose crap), creating a huge 3D psychoacoustic bubble of sound that literally comes from everywhere and nowhere. There are films where I could just sit and listen to it, and have my eyes closed!

Each to their own though and I'm not judging.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Like building a cabinet out of exotic hardwoods, and painting it white.

Spending the money you're talking about on an entertainment system, and only putting two channel sound in can only be described as foolish (I'll go ahead and put the disrespect in. I'm a jerk like that).

What exactly is your aversion to a decent reciever? The component sitting out in view? It is always possible to put the reciever in a cabinet and add an IR repeater.
 
I used the Monoprice in wall speakers (and of course cables + wall plates), expecting to upgrade them to my favorite Polks someday. 7 years later, I still have the cheap speakers and am super happy with them.

A good stereo amp for a few hundred dollars, $100 worth of quality cables in the wall, and a powered subwoofer for a few hundred more and you'll be set. Blu Rays are cheap these days. I use a PS, as I also am a gamer.
 
No disrespect taken because we're all different in what we're looking for right?

We're not a huge movie watching house. We don't watch action movies so hearing a helicopter fly overhead doesn't excite me.

It's not about having a theater sound experience in my living room. I'll go to a theater for that. It's more about having music sound full and rich for me and satellites and a subwoofer don't do that for me. A good pair of bookshelf speakers with a decent simple amp is far superior in my opinion.

I personally can't stand AVR's. In my opinion, they are antiquated, ugly and possess so many useless features for what my wife and I need that I'm not going to spend the money to use 10% of something.
 
Then, may I suggest a tube amp.
Sounds good, yes
Looks good, yes
Simple, yes

Depending on the model, you may need a source switcher box
 
jgarretson said:
No disrespect taken because we're all different in what we're looking for right?

We're not a huge movie watching house. We don't watch action movies so hearing a helicopter fly overhead doesn't excite me.

It's not about having a theater sound experience in my living room. I'll go to a theater for that. It's more about having music sound full and rich for me and satellites and a subwoofer don't do that for me. A good pair of bookshelf speakers with a decent simple amp is far superior in my opinion.

I personally can't stand AVR's. In my opinion, they are antiquated, ugly and possess so many useless features for what my wife and I need that I'm not going to spend the money to use 10% of something.
Click to expand...

The difference between HiFi (MidFi) Stereo and... Surround Noise. I'd take the former too, anytime.

Now the only thing that I would add to bookshelf speakers is a good sub to cover the low end.

No sense splurging on tube amps either, there is nothing wrong with well designed and built solid state from the early 80s (e.g., Denon). Things went downhill right after that.
 
jgarretson said:
Thanks for all of the replies. To clarify what I meant by big ass black box, it's literally any AVR that is a big ass black box whether 7" tall or 13" tall.

I'm going to go stereo because I don't want surround sound. I don't like it. I don't want speakers mounted everywhere in my room.

I'm looking at the Sonos Connect:Amp or maybe the Monitor Audio A100 amp. Both are integrated amps that are just simple. Plus they aren't giant black boxes. Anyone know of similar integrated amps with interesting industrial design? The Peachtree Audio units look great but are a little expensive.

My total budget to get started is probably $1000-1200.
Click to expand...

I don't see how you are going to do this without and AVR or at least a pre/pro. You won't be able to plug your source directly into that Sonos amp. The video source has to be decoded and the audio source needs to hit a pre-amp. At the end of the day, you need another component. If you are set on avoiding an AVR because of the size, consider something like Outlaw's model 975. It's still a black box but it's smaller.

If that house is being built right now, have you considered running some speaker cable? You will probably get more bang for your buck with wired components. I realize that there are some nice wireless setups out there. But, if you are looking to rival the quality and reliability of wired, you will pay for it.
 
The HK 570bq is a Blu Ray player and reciever combined
That'll do the trick. Hdmi1.4, 3d and audio return.
 

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