High-ish FG for a Tripel - Options?

[7pleasant]

I brewed a "Tripel IPA" (Tripel with extra hops) about 3 weeks ago and as of today the FG is a bit higher than I wanted. Here are gravity the numbers

August 4:
OG: 1.078

August 17:
G: 1.022

August 24:
G: 1.020

And here are the fermentables
5 1/2 lb Pilsner Malt (Belgian)
1/2 lb Wheat Malt
5 lb Briess Pilsen Dry Malt Extract (DME)
1 3/4 lb Candi Sugar

Mashed 70min @~148º

Pitched one vial of WLP550

About 4.5 gallons in the fermenter


So after 20 days, I've gone from from 1.078 to 1.020, which, according to the calculator, puts me at 7.6% abv. I'd like to get it down to about 1.008, or at least somewhere under 1.015.

I mashed at a lower temperature get the most out of my grains, but this was mostly extract and plain sugar. I also think I might have underpitched the yeast.

Based on the gravity ticking down .002 over the last week or so, I'm guessing there are still some active yeast in there, though they are not producing enough gas even to keep the air lock water level (slight negative pressure in the fermenter). I gave the beer a good swirl last week and some minor agitation a couple days later.

My plan today is to buy some more WLP550 and do a test to check overall fermentability and determine if the yeast has stalled, or if it's simply eaten up all the available sugar.

Since I don't know exactly what the problem is yet, I figure have a few options:

1) Let it sit in primary until...?
2) Pitch more WLP550
2a) Pitch more of some other yeast
3) Use amylase, pending results of the fermentability test

I am also curious about the usefulness of racking to secondary; even from the fermenter spigot the color and clarity look well within the guidelines.

I drank the gravity sample today and it tasted fine, but I'd love to get this thing a bit drier before I bottle it. I'm in no hurry, and assume it'll be at least a few more weeks no matter what. Any suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks!

 

[USAFSooner]

Whats been your fermentation temp? Belgians benefit from a long warm fermentation. Belgian yeast can take their sweet time to finish.

 

[7pleasant]

Mostly 75-85º, ambient temperature. It's been sitting in a warm window, wrapped in light-proof towels. I have no temperature control in my apartment.

 

[USAFSooner]

I'd go ahead and rack to secondary. Your fermentation temps are fine. Some times racking will stir it up a bit and get things going again. Also, I probably would have made at least a 1L starter on a stir plate.

 

[7pleasant]

Well the store was out of both WLP550 and its Wyeast counterpart. I guess I'll let it sit for another week and check back at the store before racking. Thanks for the advice.

I did get some Belle Saison dry yeast for a ~2gal brew tonight*. Would half a pack of that be an acceptable re-pitch, if it turns out my yeast have stalled?

After doing a bunch of reading, I'll definitely be making starts for my big beers from here on.


*This recipe unrelated to my Tripel inquiry:

Belgian IPA

1 lb Amber DME
1 lb Pilsner
1/4 lb Wheat
2 lb cane sugar
.5 oz Sorachi @ 60
.25 @ 30
.25 @ 5-0

Mash 148-152
Belle Saison yeast

 

[chickypad]

Yeah looks like you underpitched by quite a bit, especially if your yeast was not super fresh. I don't think pitching a half pack of yeast now in a beer that's at 7.6% will be very helpful. If you're going to try re-pitching you probably want to pitch a big starter at krausen.

 

[7pleasant]

Well, lesson learned, I suppose. The store said they should have more WLP550 or WYwhatever next week, so I'll check the gravity then and make a starter then if needed.

In the meantime, I'm pleased report my exmperimental small beer (second runs from an IPA kit) has produced alcohol and is now being secondaried with some lavender and sugar.

 

[USAFSooner]

Off the top of my head the equivalent is Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes.

 

[pdxal]

Seriously underpitching, using extract, and not oxygenating will leave you at a higher FG. If a beer isn't finished fermenting and has a high gravity putting it into an environment with less yeast (secondary) will prevent it from drying out. Give it more time, warm it up to 85, and see what happens, but there might not be much more it will drop.

 

[peterj]

Mostly 75-85º, ambient temperature. It's been sitting in a warm window, wrapped in light-proof towels. I have no temperature control in my apartment.

Has it been at that temp since you pitched? That's WAY too hot for any yeast (except a saison) during the initial vigorous part of fermentation. You should pitch Belgian yeast in the mid to high 60s and then let the temp rise slowly once fermentation starts to slow down. I might let it end up in the mid to high 70s after a week or a week and a half, but if it fermented the whole time at 75-85 then you might have some crazy esters and some harsh hangover producing fusel alcohols.

 

[bethebrew]

I brewed a "Tripel IPA" (Tripel with extra hops) about 3 weeks ago and as of today the FG is a bit higher than I wanted. Here are gravity the numbers

August 4:
OG: 1.078

August 17:
G: 1.022

August 24:
G: 1.020

And here are the fermentables
5 1/2 lb Pilsner Malt (Belgian)
1/2 lb Wheat Malt
5 lb Briess Pilsen Dry Malt Extract (DME)
1 3/4 lb Candi Sugar

Mashed 70min @~148º

Pitched one vial of WLP550

About 4.5 gallons in the fermenter


So after 20 days, I've gone from from 1.078 to 1.020, which, according to the calculator, puts me at 7.6% abv. I'd like to get it down to about 1.008, or at least somewhere under 1.015.

I mashed at a lower temperature get the most out of my grains, but this was mostly extract and plain sugar. I also think I might have underpitched the yeast.

Based on the gravity ticking down .002 over the last week or so, I'm guessing there are still some active yeast in there, though they are not producing enough gas even to keep the air lock water level (slight negative pressure in the fermenter). I gave the beer a good swirl last week and some minor agitation a couple days later.

My plan today is to buy some more WLP550 and do a test to check overall fermentability and determine if the yeast has stalled, or if it's simply eaten up all the available sugar.

Since I don't know exactly what the problem is yet, I figure have a few options:

1) Let it sit in primary until...?
2) Pitch more WLP550
2a) Pitch more of some other yeast
3) Use amylase, pending results of the fermentability test

I am also curious about the usefulness of racking to secondary; even from the fermenter spigot the color and clarity look well within the guidelines.

I drank the gravity sample today and it tasted fine, but I'd love to get this thing a bit drier before I bottle it. I'm in no hurry, and assume it'll be at least a few more weeks no matter what. Any suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks!

You're probably done bro. Do not pitch more yeast or use amylase.

Here's the thing. Your 1.020 seems about right. No way in hell you should be looking to get down to 1.015 and even more so 1.008 from 1.078 starting.

So let it sit a week, and then take another gravity reading and go from there.

 

[chickypad]

Here's the thing. Your 1.020 seems about right. No way in hell you should be looking to get down to 1.015 and even more so 1.008 from 1.078 starting.

That's not necessarily true with that yeast, mashing at 148, and 13% sugar. Looking through my brew log I've had several tripels/golden strongs with similar recipes that have gone from 1.077-1.081 down to 1.008 - 1.011 with the 550. Now those were all grain, the extract in this if less fermentable could bring the FG up and 1.008 may be overly optimistic but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be at least under 1.020.

One thing though OP, did you top off and/or mix well after adding extract, and also cool the sample before you measured OG? With a 5 gallon batch a 70% efficiency on your recipe I'm getting 1.088 estimated OG, and your volume sounds like it may have been a little less. 1.078 in 5 gallons looks like about 48% effiiciency. Just wondering if you started higher than you thought.

 

[7pleasant]

I sampled the wort after mixing in water and such, at room temperature.

I do believe my mashing efficiency is poor, though I'm not sure what to do about it. The grain bags took up nearly half the volume of my brewkettle, which has me concerned about solubility with so little water. The bags being pressed against the side of the kettle may have affected the steeping temperature, too.

The batch ended up being about 4.5 gallons, and I upped the sugar slightly because of a lower than anticipated gravity after the boil.

 

[apalke]

You could try pitching a vial of Brett B. to drop the gravity a few more points... of course it would take longer to age.

 

[chickypad]

I sampled the wort after mixing in water and such, at room temperature.

I do believe my mashing efficiency is poor, though I'm not sure what to do about it. The grain bags took up nearly half the volume of my brewkettle, which has me concerned about solubility with so little water. The bags being pressed against the side of the kettle may have affected the steeping temperature, too.
.

Could have had a mixing issue then if you didn't stir the crap out of it.

How much water are you mashing in? You'll want to have the grains really loose in the bag so you can stir them in with the water. The 5 gallon paint strainer bags from Lowe's/HD work well and are pretty cheap.

 

[RonPopeil]

You're probably done bro. Do not pitch more yeast or use amylase.

Here's the thing. Your 1.020 seems about right. No way in hell you should be looking to get down to 1.015 and even more so 1.008 from 1.078 starting.

So let it sit a week, and then take another gravity reading and go from there.

that's false. i took a 1.080 down to 1.004 using belgian yeast.

i would grab a yeast vial and make an enormous starter. to get my high attentuation i did a step mash and pitched a huge 4L starter. also added brown sugar after a few days of fermentation.

1.020 is a good amount of left over sugar. you also don't have a lot of cara grains in this so theoretically you could dry it out a lot more. not sure what using extract is going to do for your FG though. so i guess you have to ask yourself if it's worth $10 on yeast and DME to attempt drying this out more.

 

[peterj]

I might try to pitch some of that Belle Saison yeast. I've heard it has crazy high attenuation, like in the 90% range. I would probably make a starter with a pack of that and pitch it at high krausen. Generally you shouldn't make starters with dry yeast, but in this case I think it's a good idea to get the cells in the active phase they need to be in and so they won't be totally shocked by the alcohol you would be pitching them into.

 

[pdxal]

that's false. i took a 1.080 down to 1.004 using belgian yeast.

i would grab a yeast vial and make an enormous starter. to get my high attentuation i did a step mash and pitched a huge 4L starter. also added brown sugar after a few days of fermentation.

1.020 is a good amount of left over sugar. you also don't have a lot of cara grains in this so theoretically you could dry it out a lot more. not sure what using extract is going to do for your FG though. so i guess you have to ask yourself if it's worth $10 on yeast and DME to attempt drying this out more.

I hope he gets it lower, but 1.078 to 1.020 is about 75 percent attenuation, with a recipe that has lots of extract in it, underpitching, poor temperature control, and no oxygenation. Getting lower might be a miracle.
I know you got 1.080 down to 1.004, but was it with this yeast, underpitched, under these conditions? The OP didn't step mash, use an enormous starter, or add sugar a few days after fermentation. The extract has some crystal/dextrins in it and lower attenuation (witness all of the 1.030 fermentation stalled threads on here).
I hope you're right and he can get it lower with what you suggest, but I am doubtful. I agree- don't throw amylase at it, especially if it tastes OK at only 20 days in. The last few points can be slow to come with many Belgian yeasts.

 

[Poobah58]

Give it a gentle swirl a couple of times a day for a week. To avoid oxygenation do not take off air lock. Rack to secondary for a week or two then keg/bottle. Do not add more yeast or beano or anything else. You will probably regret it. It is what it is. You have quite a bit of extract which is 10-15% cara-pils and you probably under pitched. Learn from this and adjust next batch. As they say, RDWHAHB. It will still make good beer...

 

[RonPopeil]

I hope he gets it lower, but 1.078 to 1.020 is about 75 percent attenuation, with a recipe that has lots of extract in it, underpitching, poor temperature control, and no oxygenation. Getting lower might be a miracle.
I know you got 1.080 down to 1.004, but was it with this yeast, underpitched, under these conditions? The OP didn't step mash, use an enormous starter, or add sugar a few days after fermentation. The extract has some crystal/dextrins in it and lower attenuation (witness all of the 1.030 fermentation stalled threads on here).
I hope you're right and he can get it lower with what you suggest, but I am doubtful. I agree- don't throw amylase at it, especially if it tastes OK at only 20 days in. The last few points can be slow to come with many Belgian yeasts.

i may be mistaken but i think 550 is known to stall. I know it's 500 or 550. A few comments on the white labs site said that it could take up to two weeks for fermentation to kick back up. I wouldn't worry much about temperature control unless it's been exposed to drastic temperature swings.

I'd let it go another week and see what happens. Considering all the factors going against drying out you may only get a few more points off it. 75% seems like poor attentuation but a healthy pitch would only garner up to 82%. If it goes a few more weeks and manages 78% I'd consider it done.