Heffe too dark and too strong

[Raven_BC]

I think I messed up the Hefe recipe I was using. I put it into WORT app on my phone and it had the OG too low as it was calling for 7.5lbs of LME and LME is only available near me in 3.3lbs batches, so i did 6.6lbs of LME and added 2 lbs of DME.

The recipe called for replacing all grains with extract and here I am thinking I can outsmart it so I took what they had as 8oz of melanoidin malt for the AG and I used it to steep but instead I use 1lbs.

The recipe I did was as follows

1lb of melanoidin malt (steeping)
6.6 lbs of Wheat Liquid Extract
2 lbs of wheat dry extract
.7 oz of Golding East Kent Hops @ 60 mins
1 package of Weihenstephan Weizen 3068

Half the extract at flame out and let sit for 10 mins

I did a boil with 4G and then topped up to 5.5G after chilling.

WORT says I should have ended up at 1.046 but my OG after lots of mixing was 1.054 and my colour looks way darker than it should be. I realized the mistake on the melanoidin but I'm not sure why my OG is still that far off when all the ingredients were entered into WORT, wondering if it just doesn't calculate it correctly?

Oh well it will be beer but I wonder what it will be like?

 

[neverfadeaway86]

1.057 is what i get from that, it seems that you used two lbs DME when you should have used 1 lb which would have put you around 1.050. This puts it just above the higher end for the style but you should be just fine with a beer around 5.65 %

side note also DME is stronger than LME as well

 

[IslandLizard]

The Melanoidin will have given you some extra color, it's 20°L or so. A pound in a 5 gallon batch is quite a lot. 8-12 oz would have been enough. You don't want to really taste it, it should leave a hint, an enhancement, mimicking a decoction mash without spending the extra 3-4 hours doing it.

Now Melanoidins should ideally be mashed with a base malt, not sure how much good steeping does, it's starchy, not sugary like crystal malt.

 

[Raven_BC]

I realized I made a mistake with the Melanoidin half way through the steep. I'm not sure why Wort is so far off on the OG calculation, I tried Brewers friend after the fact and it was much more accurate. I think I need to switch.

As far as the melanoidin any idea how this might affect the taste?

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm not sure why Wort is so far off on the OG calculation,

it seems that you used two lbs DME when you should have used 1 lb which would have put you around 1.050.

This^

Also DME/LME conversions by weight:

• 1 DME = 1.2 LME
• 1 LME = .84 DME

So you should have used .76 pound of DME to substitute for the missing 0.9 pound of LME. Rounding up to 1 pound would have been close enough.

As far as the melanoidin any idea how this might affect the taste?

Melanoidins give it a more intense, maltier flavor. It won't hurt it.

 

[Lefou]

I use BOTH Brewers Friend and WORT.
WORT is on my phone and is a moderately good way to do recipes on-the-fly when brainstorming, but Brewers Friend has a more accurate database of information to draw from, so I typically alter BF recipes and save to my phone in a WORT recipe format.
WORT will allow you to alter some parameters like hop bitterness, grain Lovibond, and gravities to some extent but I don't trust the hop utilization or Lovibond calculations as much as Brewers Friend.

When dreaming up a German or American-style hefeweizen with DME, I'd advise simply using Pilsner and wheat in a 50/50 mix. When using LME in the US, I prefer Briess Pilsner or Bavarian wheat, or simply using the Bavarian wheat in the right mixture.
...but melanoidin?
No way, simply because it's not really a large portion of a classic pilsner/wheat recipe and it will be too dark, just as you experienced. A good all grain partial mash substitute for melanoidin here would've been Vienna, Munich 10L, or a mix of the two.

 

[Raven_BC]

Thanks for the advice on using the Pilsner I think next time I will try that and ignore the melanoidin. Any recommendations on using any steeping grains when doing an extract?

Now my debate is whether to retry this recipe with the corrections next weekend or try something else. I think I'd like to wait to sample this first before I try to make another Hefe. Who knows it may be an awesome beer...

So I'd like to try a hoppy session IPA next time. Any great recipe recommendations?

 

[Lefou]

By just the looks of it, depending on your yeast, you might end up with an amber weizenbock or marzen-style beer. No harm in that at all.
If you'd like an IPA recipe, try the online recipe listing here. There are LOADS of IPA recipes ... unfortunately, I don't drink or homebrew that style.

 

[IslandLizard]

When dreaming up a German or American-style hefeweizen with DME, I'd advise simply using Pilsner and wheat in a 50/50 mix. When using LME in the US, I prefer Briess Pilsner or Bavarian wheat, or simply using the Bavarian wheat in the right mixture.

Just remember, Briess Bavarian Wheat DME or LME is only 65% Wheat and 35% Base (probably Pilsner). So if you want it to be closer to 50/50 Wheat/Pilsner in your wort, only add 30% Pilsner Extract. IOW, use Pilsen Light Extract to Bavarian Wheat Extract at a ratio of 0.3 to 1.

 

[Lefou]

"Any recommendations on using any steeping grains when doing an extract?"

See my Post #6 again. I edited it to include possible choices of all grain steeping grain for a hefeweizen style.

 

[IslandLizard]

Any recommendations on using any steeping grains when doing an extract?

A good all grain partial mash substitute for melanoidin here would've been Vienna, Munich 10L, or a mix of the two.

@Raven_BC:
None of those are steeping grains either, they need to be properly (mini) mashed, a process that opens a whole plethora of other beers that can be brewed.
Munich and Vienna do indeed give a lot more flavor than plain Pilsner Malt, but those don't really belong in a Hefe either. One of our Club members uses that same Bavarian Wheat extract (at 100%) to brew his Hefe. They are really good. He doesn't find it worth the time to brew an all grain.
Melanoidins are really for simulating the flavor one would get from performing a decoction mash.

 

[IslandLizard]

Any recommendations on using any steeping grains when doing an extract?

http://www.beersmith.com/Grains/Grains/GrainList.htm
The grains that have "No" in the column Must Mash can be steeped. They need to be milled of course.
None of the extracts and sugars need to be steeped of course, they can be directly added to the boil or to the fermenter.

In general:

• all crystal malts and roasted malts can be steeped.
• All base malts need to be mashed.
• Most specialty malts need to be mashed.
• Some specialty malts, such as Special B, Honey Malt, Special Roast, and a few more, can be successfully steeped, but possibly with somewhat reduced color, flavor and aroma.

 

[Raven_BC]

Wow this is really useful Thanks. So Melanoidin says it must be mashed. So the effect on the beer when steeping will mostly just be colour I assume and some flavouring but will not contribute any fermentables.