Harvested Cantillon Yeast...what to do?

[fendersrule]

My local brewery let me in on some (Lambic?) yeast that was harvested from a Cantillon bottle. I think they grew it over a period of a few months and I was gifted with a starter.

My friend (who works at the brewery) brewed an IPA last weekend and pitched a starter that he had (in 1.064 OG wort). He noticed that there was zero activity within 24 hours. I think he saw one sign of off gas after that. He measured the PH to be 4.5 at the end of 48 hours. He is fermenting at room temp. It's been several days, and activity is still low. I haven't gotten an update from him today, but he was considering to pitch something else.

I'm considering to use this yeast for a fruited lambic beer, but now I'm having second thoughts. Do I create a larger starter with the yeast I have? Are we doing something wrong? I notice that Cantillon beers are open fermented over the period of years. Is this something to be expected, even with harvesting the yeast? Is it better to just buy a lambic yeast at the store instead? Would be cool to use this, but I don't want to have a brew day where the odds are heavily stacked against me against this working.

@RPh_Guy

 

[fendersrule]

He said last night (which would be 72 hours from pitch) he's getting steady fermentation!

Wonder if I should create a 2L starter before using it myself.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'm considering to use this yeast for a fruited lambic beer, but now I'm having second thoughts. Do I create a larger starter with the yeast I have? Are we doing something wrong? I notice that Cantillon beers are open fermented over the period of years. Is this something to be expected, even with harvesting the yeast? Is it better to just buy a lambic yeast at the store instead? Would be cool to use this, but I don't want to have a brew day where the odds are heavily stacked against me against this working.

Generally speaking, it's not recommended to use dregs for a primary fermentation. However, there are a lot of methods to make beer. A known Sacc strain should be pitched for primary fermentation if you want predictable results, which is what I recommend.

FYI Cantillon beers are not open fermented; they are fermented in barrels or foeders. Years of open fermentation would produce a nice malt vinegar.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The word you're looking for is "spontaneously" fermented, not open fermented. The "open" portion is basically a brief stay in a coolship to pick up organisms from the air, and then into barrels for the duration.

And there isn't really a "Cantillon yeast" but rather hundreds or more different strains and species of wild yeast and bacteria.

Some of those organisms will very much take their time to show. Wouldn't be something I'd use in an IPA. As @RPh_Guy said, your best results with dregs will be using a normal pitchable yeast, and then a long aging in a secondary with the dregs.

 

[fendersrule]

Great help, thanks. Sounds like the thing to do is to use something neutral, like US-05, then let it age and do its thing with the dregs in the secondary! Sound like a good plan for a lambic beer?

 

[RPh_Guy]

I would suggest using a flavorful Saccharomyces rather than neutral.

If you have aged hops, use them. Otherwise, about 1 oz/5 gal of low-AA (preferably noble) hops is reasonable in my opinion.

A "secondary" vessel is not needed.

 

[fendersrule]

You'd keep it all the primary, even the 7 lbs of pasteurized fruit that I'm throwing in there (weighed down, of course)?

Got a good yeast recommendation for the primary? What IBU should I shoot for on the noble hops for a blackberry lambic? Sounds like pretty low, 20-30 IBU.

About how long would you let it ride for after pitching the second yeast (lambic) before even considering a taste test?

Edit: He said that it is a "propagated yeast" more than "dregs".

 

[JAReeves]

@RPh_Guy has helped me a lot with questions on sours and wine, so his advice is excellent.

I normally primary with a Belgian or Saison strain, then I move it out of my primary into a secondary for sour culture/fruit/etc. I do this because my primary has a cooling system that I don't want to tie up for long periods of time and also because once sour culture hits any type of rubber/silicon gasket, assume it will be there forever.

My mixed fermentations normally take at least six months (I just kegged an apricot saison that is amazing after 6 months), but most of them are 8 months to a year, and I am currently aging my Flanders Red at 1 1/2 years. I am looking at getting a couple more barrels so I can dedicate them to a solera-method of aging sours (pull out 1/2-2/3 of the aged liquid and then replace with fresh wort). If you have the room, it could look like The Mad Fermentationist's basement or it could just be a couple carboys in the back of a closet you taste every couple of months.

 

[monkeymath]

Wait a second, are you guys really sure this is a mixed culture?
From the phrasing of the original post, it sounds to me as if the brewers had isolated and propagated a (probably sacch?) yeast strain from Cantillon dregs.