Goose Island IPA
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I can get you close. For 12 gallons: 100% Maris-Otter. OG 17 P. FG 5.0 7% a.b.v. P. IBU 61.4. Ferm Temp 68 (free rise from 64F).
Yakima Magnum 2.00 oz. - 90 Min.
Fuggle - 3 oz., 15 min.
Cascade - 4 oz., knockout/WP
Centennial, 2.50 oz. - Dry (Slurry recirc)
EKG 1.50 OZ., Dry (recirc slurry)
Mash in at 149 x 20 min
Ramp 150-155, 1 min./Deg. F
Rest at 156 x 60 min.
Mashout 170F x 15 min.
White Labs Burton Ale Yeast (WLP023)
Yakima Magnum 2.00 oz. - 90 Min.
Fuggle - 3 oz., 15 min.
Cascade - 4 oz., knockout/WP
Centennial, 2.50 oz. - Dry (Slurry recirc)
EKG 1.50 OZ., Dry (recirc slurry)
Mash in at 149 x 20 min
Ramp 150-155, 1 min./Deg. F
Rest at 156 x 60 min.
Mashout 170F x 15 min.
White Labs Burton Ale Yeast (WLP023)
It is pale malt. 100% Maris-Otter (see my post above). It's got it's own silo.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
Have you made this? What do you think of it? I have everything on hand and like Goose Island
Yep, I've made it a ton, and really like it. The malt is maltier than a standard American two row but it provides a foundation for the hops, doesn't get in the way; hop bill is a blend of floral and earth from the English hops, and that classic citrus brightness of the American hops. The two families work great together, IMO.
The mash is slightly alpha-amylase, dextrin balanced but has enough fermentability with that initial beta-amylase rest at 149F to ensure there's nothing cloying at the end.
I should have mentioned a big part of why it works, is because of how GI dry hops - slurry, and no more than 3 days on the dry hops (though I never knew Matt Brynildson liked to do multiple additions, until very recently, lol). I used a beer that was close to the beer I was making, to make the slurry (probably GI IPA, lol). Goose used an empty yeast brink to recirc, then send into the Uni.
I can't remember at all how close I was to GI's version, but I knew what they were after with this brew, and I think did a decent job with it. Hope you like it. It will definitely be a regular once I get up and running.
Edit: I should probably add, this recipe was from back when I used to step mash. I just single mash now. I think I'll probably come in at 153?, but YMMV.
I'm not a big fan of the beer (filtered) but also wanted to say that a significant part of the beers character is going to be from process. I would worry less about the variety of pale malt and more about dry hopping and packaging.
Also while I could be completely wrong, for my tastes (OG 17P. FG 5P) I'd be very upset if that beer finished at 20. To get 7% I'd be looking at 67-68 to 13-14 with attenuation in the 80's. I understand that WLP023 is 65-75% which puts it more like 70 to 16. 16 is plenty (for me) for a hop forward IPA with such a simple grist and I'm sure the bean counters at inbev would be crying if it truly finishes at 20. If I was concerned about it being too dry, I'd first look at the water and if that didn't get me there start bringing the mash up a degree at a time. Finally dextrin malt though it shouldn't need to get that far and it'd depend on how committed I was to the yeast strain.
Also while I could be completely wrong, for my tastes (OG 17P. FG 5P) I'd be very upset if that beer finished at 20. To get 7% I'd be looking at 67-68 to 13-14 with attenuation in the 80's. I understand that WLP023 is 65-75% which puts it more like 70 to 16. 16 is plenty (for me) for a hop forward IPA with such a simple grist and I'm sure the bean counters at inbev would be crying if it truly finishes at 20. If I was concerned about it being too dry, I'd first look at the water and if that didn't get me there start bringing the mash up a degree at a time. Finally dextrin malt though it shouldn't need to get that far and it'd depend on how committed I was to the yeast strain.
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jahlinux
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Thank's for posting your recipe. Can you explain the slurry recirc process?
Stz, they don't use WLP023. I don't know the strain, so WLP023 was my selection when coming up with my best emulation. I used their yeast constantly and I have to say, it's the best yeast I ever worked with, hands down. There is a strong "house" character to GI beers, and that character is due to GI yeast. So if anything, I'd say, their yeast and how they handle it all along the production chain is extremely important.
So, in other words, you're not going to get there exactly, but like I said, I think I can bring you close. I hear your points but I do think there's room for this kind of mashing regimen, resulting in this kind of attenuation, etc. I guess I'll just have to say, I'm fine with the result, and saw it and many like it (say, mash regimes, FG's, etc.) in practice.
Sure! I wasn't getting much out of my dry hopping and they always did, so I asked one of the guys who worked there (Jim Cibak, forget where he is now) to talk to me about the dry hop process. This was like 18 years ago mind you, so back then, it was, I think, not all that common. He said they developed a slurry by putting the hop pellets in one the empty yeast brinks where they propagated and maintained yeast, when needed), then recirculated beer through the pellets in a loop, until it made a slurry. The pellets break up completely, and you make a kind of thinnish, liquidy slurry that can now be moved over and dumped into the IPA CCV, let's say. You now have beer in instant contact with hop particles - there's no need for time to break up those pellets and get them going - so it's an intense "injection", which is one reason they don't require more than 3 days. The other reason is that Matt Brynildson (Head Brewer at the time) hated getting any chance of vegetal character in the beer, so it was intense hopping, then off.
On the home level, the best I could come up with was to do it all in a sterilized gallon jug; dump a beer similar to the beer I wanted to dry hop (say, GI IPA, like I say above), and allow to steep in the refrigerator for several hours, then swirl (not shake - try to limit O2 ingress) until I had a uniform slurry; pitch into fermentor and proceed. 3 days, crash cool, 1 day at crash temp, rack off and go.
Also, another thing to keep in mind is that they dry hop near the end, but not after, fermentation. Matt felt it's better to have the O2 introduced by the hop nucleation sites scrubbed out by finishing fermentation, then fear losing any hop oil character to that final fermentation.
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jahlinux
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Interesting, never thought of dry hopping that way. I'm usually not impressed with my dry hopping results. I'll have to give this method a try.
Any reason you didn't stick with the hops Goose Island lists on their website? Cascade, Centennial, Pilgrim, Styrian Celeia
I haven't even seen the site, jahlinux, but will go there as it's great they're listing ingredients. I worked for them a long, long time ago, so looks like things have changed. Greg Hal was a big Styrian guy, but at the time, to my knowledge, they weren't using it in their IPA (Honker's, yes). And it wasn't Celeia - at least insofar as anybody knew. Pilgrim wasn't even developed at the time I was there (but man, just looked it up - I'm using it. Sounds delish!).
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jahlinux
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If you have Mitch Steeles book on IPAs he has a recipe for Goose Island in it. He lists the percentage of each hop.
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jahlinux
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Mitch Steele’s book calls for the following hops (All pellets):
16% Pilgrim T90 at the start of the boil
60% Styrian (Savinjski) Goldings T90 24% Cascade T45 during whirlpool
Dry hop on the fifth fermentation day at a rate of ~0.5 lb/bbl with 66% Centennial T90 and 34% Cascade T90
Later I'll try entering the recipe into BeerSmith and post it.
16% Pilgrim T90 at the start of the boil
60% Styrian (Savinjski) Goldings T90 24% Cascade T45 during whirlpool
Dry hop on the fifth fermentation day at a rate of ~0.5 lb/bbl with 66% Centennial T90 and 34% Cascade T90
Later I'll try entering the recipe into BeerSmith and post it.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Hopbreeding for much of the 20th century was about lowering costs by increasing alpha and disease resistance. In that regard you can view Pilgrim as an improved Golding and Celeia as a cheaper, improved Savinjski, which in turn is just Fuggles in a low-labour-cost country (with slightly different terroir). Sort of thing that takeover victims have to accept as the price of being taken over by multinationals with eagle-eyed accountants in charge - shouldn't make too much difference to flavour but keeps the beancounters happy.
@G - intrigued that what we perceive as such a archetypal US brand has so much English input -is that just you, or was it actually like that? Intrigued about their yeast - anything you know about source, brewing numbers? Do they bottle condition anything with the brewing yeast to allow recovery at home or is it all specialist bottling yeasts / dead beer? (maybe some of their specials? ) Or maybe one of the brewers has taken it with them to new projects?
Northern,
It actually wasn't me. You know how much I'm a traditionalist as to English brewing, brewing history and lore, etc. It was the company culture, I guess I'd call it, headed up by Greg Hall, who created many and spearheaded most recipes. Add a few things in - IIRC, they entered their Honker's in EPA and IPA in the English IPA, and not American variants of these ales, in BJCP competitions; and on balance I'd proffer the guess (and mind you, I was not a brewer - at one point I was National Distribution Manager, and that's it. And I wasn't exactly happy, nor was Goose, but an entirely different and irrelevant story, so enough there) they'd say they were making American beers with some English accents. Then again, perhaps not. Perhaps Greg thought their beers were more English than I'm giving them. Sorry I can't offer more.
On the specific questions you asked: Their yeast truly was wonderful, and I had as much as I could use, as fresh as it could get, in pitchable quantities. My 2 tier system was actually right below/beside the brewhouse vessels (vessels spanned 2 floors), so I'd often brew early in the morning, or stay after work. I regret I have no idea where it came from, its code, or its specs. I probably never thought to ask them to ranch it for, well, a couple reasons. Too bad, truly.
No, to my knowledge, no beers were bottle conditioned and all were filtered. A friend of mine made the most extraordinary barleywine I've ever had - beautiful maltiness over cloying sweetness by the judicious use of munich malts - and aged it for a year, I think, in bourbon casks. That was an experiment and it may have been cask conditioned, but I'm not certain. Nothing else in production bottling was, to my knowledge, anything but filtered.
On the other hand, it would not surprise me at all if one of the brewers took it with them. There are 4 I know, worked with. Matt Brynildson (Firestone Walker), Jonathan Cutler (Piece, Chicago), Phin de Mink (Southern Tier, NY), and Jim Cibak (I don't know where Jim is these days. It was his barleywine I spoke of).
I have nothing but admiration for all 4 of these guys.
It actually wasn't me. You know how much I'm a traditionalist as to English brewing, brewing history and lore, etc. It was the company culture, I guess I'd call it, headed up by Greg Hall, who created many and spearheaded most recipes. Add a few things in - IIRC, they entered their Honker's in EPA and IPA in the English IPA, and not American variants of these ales, in BJCP competitions; and on balance I'd proffer the guess (and mind you, I was not a brewer - at one point I was National Distribution Manager, and that's it. And I wasn't exactly happy, nor was Goose, but an entirely different and irrelevant story, so enough there) they'd say they were making American beers with some English accents. Then again, perhaps not. Perhaps Greg thought their beers were more English than I'm giving them. Sorry I can't offer more.
On the specific questions you asked: Their yeast truly was wonderful, and I had as much as I could use, as fresh as it could get, in pitchable quantities. My 2 tier system was actually right below/beside the brewhouse vessels (vessels spanned 2 floors), so I'd often brew early in the morning, or stay after work. I regret I have no idea where it came from, its code, or its specs. I probably never thought to ask them to ranch it for, well, a couple reasons. Too bad, truly.
No, to my knowledge, no beers were bottle conditioned and all were filtered. A friend of mine made the most extraordinary barleywine I've ever had - beautiful maltiness over cloying sweetness by the judicious use of munich malts - and aged it for a year, I think, in bourbon casks. That was an experiment and it may have been cask conditioned, but I'm not certain. Nothing else in production bottling was, to my knowledge, anything but filtered.
On the other hand, it would not surprise me at all if one of the brewers took it with them. There are 4 I know, worked with. Matt Brynildson (Firestone Walker), Jonathan Cutler (Piece, Chicago), Phin de Mink (Southern Tier, NY), and Jim Cibak (I don't know where Jim is these days. It was his barleywine I spoke of).
I have nothing but admiration for all 4 of these guys.
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jahlinux
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I adapted a recipe I found on the BeerSmith Cloud. I'm new to using BeerSmith so if you see anything I'm screwing up let me know.
View attachment Goose Island IPA Clone.pdf
View attachment Goose Island IPA Clone.pdf
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Looks like he helped Josh Deth set up Revolution in Chicago.
Seems to me that rather than chasing English yeasts, you need to find some GI yeast again, it's part of your story, your personal terroir....
Thanks for that, Northern. Jim is one of the kindest, most amiable people I've ever worked with. And talented, while remaining completely humble about it all the while. One face - an easy smile. Great guy. Wish I wouldn't sound like an idiot were I to use "mate," or "lad," because I think either applies so well.
And that's a profound note on the yeast, Northern. Especially given the beer is now made by Budweiser, I have no idea what's going on at the plant or who is doing it, but regardless - you couldn't be more apt, and apropos of what it truly is I think we're all trying to do. It's a worthy hunt. Thanks.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Probably Target, but any of the Wye hops would do at a pinch.
