Glass vs plastic carboy, bags vs strainers

[mozltovcoktail]

I just put my first batch ever, using a 1 gallon Everyday IPA kit from Brooklyn Brew Shop, into the carboy to ferment, and and I've already caught the bug! I'm planning my next brew while I wait for this one to ferment, and I'd like to make the jump to 5 gallon batches. I have two questions as I think about my next brew:

Do you get as good of a mash/wort from steeping the grains inside one of those cheesecloth bags as you do directly in the water? I found cleaning the strainer after pouring the mash into the pot through it to be a major pain due to little bits of grains getting caught between the two layers of mesh (course and fine).

Second question: I need to get a 5 gallon carboy. Are the plastic "Better Bottle" carboys as sanitary as a glass one? I love the idea of a big glass carboy, but if the Better Bottles are, well, better, I'll go for one of those. I found this thread that references a wiki page, but it's empty: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/glass-vs-plastic-carboy-55204/

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but that's it for now. Thanks!

-Aaron

 

[freisste]

I use bags and like them. No issues with efficiency at least for me. I stir like crazy at the beginning of the mash, then usually stir twice during and once at the end. Then I sparge by pouring water over it.

Regarding carboys (which I personally don't use), there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Glass is harder to scratch, so you are less likely to get crud stuck in a scratch. In general, though, both are fine. Glass is slippery when wet and much heavier, too. Both will leave a hell of a mess if dropped when full, although glass is obviously more dangerous if shattered.

Weigh the pros and cons for yourself... No one but you can make the decision.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

This is a total newb response, but what do you ferment in if not a carboy?

As far as the bag is concerned, do you keep the top of it open so you can stir during the mash, and also keep it open as you as you sparge? For some reason I was imagining it as a closed sack, but I'm thinking I imagined it wrong.

Thanks!

 

[runkelia]

I have glass carboys and plastic. I like glass for reason stated above, but don't get a 5 gallon, get a 6 or 6 1/2.

 

[OleGoatBrewing]

I use a food safe bottling bucket with lid drilled for a stopper and airlock. They're pretty common. Good luck.

 

[chickypad]

Lots of folks mash in bags - research BIAB technique. The key is you need a large enough bag so the grain is very loose and you can stir. Also I wouldn't recommend cheesecloth, get a nylon mesh bag. For your 1 gallon batches you can get the 2 gallon paint strainer bags at HD or lowe's.

 

[Hobanon]

This is a total newb response, but what do you ferment in if not a carboy?
Thanks!

Lots of brew shops sell ~6 gallon food-grade plastic buckets with lids you can put an airlock on. Search online for fermenters, you'll find plenty of alternatives. I'm about to switch to buckets myself as I am getting too tired of cleaning out carboys (the narrow opening makes it a pain).

 

[The_Bishop]

I have 2 extract/specialty grain batches under my belt, going to all grain with my next batch via BIAB.

I ferment in a fermenting bucket with a lid and airlock. Far easier to clean, much safer than glass carboys. Also seems to be less need for blow-off tubes, the krausen never reached the airlock.

 

[runkelia]

I have 2 extract/specialty grain batches under my belt, going to all grain with my next batch via BIAB.

I ferment in a fermenting bucket with a lid and airlock. Far easier to clean, much safer than glass carboys. Also seems to be less need for blow-off tubes, the krausen never reached the airlock.

Cleaning a glass carboy is pretty easy. Oxyclean soak and rinse, done. Also I don't believe buckets are safer, scratches in the plastic could harbor bacteria. If you get a bigger vessel blow off tubes are a non issue.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

If you get a bigger vessel blow off tubes are a non issue.

So could I, for example, get a 6.5 gallon Better Bottle and ferment a 5 gallon batch in it to avoid needing a blowoff tube?

 

[runkelia]

So could I, for example, get a 6.5 gallon Better Bottle and ferment a 5 gallon batch in it to avoid needing a blowoff tube?

thats what I do

 

[RM-MN]

I use a nylon paint strainer bag for steeping/mashing. It's a single layer so I don't have grain particles getting stuck between layers.

I'll suggest you use a bucket fermenter instead of a carboy. With the wide mouth its easier to transfer the wort because you can just dump it. If the wort wasn't as cool as you expected, the bucket won't shatter like a glass carboy could. It's easy to clean because you can reach inside and sponge it out. With care not to scratch it, a bucket can last for many years.

Buckets have handles so you are less likely to drop on and if you did, it would not shatter but rather just bounce.

However, you can't see the beer churning, you can't easily see how high the krausen is and some bucket lids leak enough that you won't see the airlock bubble. If you are one of those that think all these are necessary, I can't help you. I don't have my shrink license.

 

[Yooper]

So could I, for example, get a 6.5 gallon Better Bottle and ferment a 5 gallon batch in it to avoid needing a blowoff tube?

They don't make 6.5 gallon plastic carboys- the largest is 6 gallon. That's the only issue with them in my opinion.

A 6 gallon carboy really isn't quite big enough for some fermentations, so I use an "ale pail"- a 7.9 gallon bucket with a lid with a hole for an airlock.

 

[RM-MN]

Cleaning a glass carboy is pretty easy. Oxyclean soak and rinse, done. Also I don't believe buckets are safer, scratches in the plastic could harbor bacteria. If you get a bigger vessel blow off tubes are a non issue.

Nobody has had to make a trip to the emergency room from an infected batch of beer, nothing that can cause that will survive in beer. You could have to dump a batch (pretty rare) but that still doesn't require stitches like broken glass carboys have.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

A 6 gallon carboy really isn't quite big enough for some fermentations, so I use an "ale pail"- a 7.9 gallon bucket with a lid with a hole for an airlock.

You use the 7.9 gallon pail for a 5 gallon batch? I'm wondering if the 6 gallon Better Bottle would work for a 5 gallon batch without needing a blowoff tube.

 

[runkelia]

They don't make 6.5 gallon plastic carboys- the largest is 6 gallon. That's the only issue with them in my opinion.

A 6 gallon carboy really isn't quite big enough for some fermentations, so I use an "ale pail"- a 7.9 gallon bucket with a lid with a hole for an airlock.

Thanks for the correction, Better Bottle does not make 6.5 gallon carboys.

 

[Yooper]

You use the 7.9 gallon pail for a 5 gallon batch? I'm wondering if the 6 gallon Better Bottle would work for a 5 gallon batch without needing a blowoff tube.

I am. I don't know if I "need" it, but I do have plenty of headspace. I just ran and took a photo of a beer I'm going to dryhop today. There is lots of headspace, but if you look at the sides were the krausen ring is, you can see how high it was at one time. That was a 64 degree fermentation with WLP001, so not as big as a krausen as someone fermenting a wheat beer with hefeweizen yeast at 70 degrees would get. Some fermentations get pretty explosive, with lots of krausen, so it won't hurt to have more headspace. I don't know of anybody who wishes their primary had less headspace!



I've only needed a blow off tube once, in 7 years. I've never had a mess. I think that is why this works for me.

Edit- it looks like there isn't much beer in there! But it's a tad over 5.25 gallons!

 

[runkelia]

You use the 7.9 gallon pail for a 5 gallon batch? I'm wondering if the 6 gallon Better Bottle would work for a 5 gallon batch without needing a blowoff tube.

I have also used the 6 gallon Better Bottle for a 5 gallon batch without blow off issue.

 

[runkelia]

I was in your position not too long ago. I already had a 6.5 gallon glass carboy, and needed another for primary. I bought the 6 gallon Better Bottle because it weighs alot less than the glass. But I find that I prefer the glass over the plastic, because you can use a brush to clean in conjunction with chemicals, whereas you cannot use a brush for the Better Bottle. Therefore: If you are strong enough to carry a 6.5 gallon glass carboy, full, and you have the extra $10, then why get the Better Bottle?

 

[chickypad]

You use the 7.9 gallon pail for a 5 gallon batch? I'm wondering if the 6 gallon Better Bottle would work for a 5 gallon batch without needing a blowoff tube.

A blow off tube is no big deal. Especially if you aim for a little over 5 gallon in the fermenter to get a full 5 gallons packaged based on personal experience I would recommend a blow off with the 6 gal better bottles.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

I do think that being able to see into it will be a big deal for me, so I don't think I'd go with a bucket. At least that's my current thinking. I'm sure lots of things will shift around for me as I explore brewing more and more.

I'm worried about having to deal with blowoff, but it's nice to hear on this thread that it's not much of a hassle to deal with.

Right now I'm leaning towards a 6 gallon Better Bottle without the port to brew batches of 5 gallons in, with hopes I won't need a blowoff tube. It seems like they're pretty easy to clean if you follow their instructions, and I like the idea of not dying from major lacerations.

Then again, if you ask me in an hour I might have changed my mind So much to consider!

 

[amie]

We use 6 gallon glass carboys, primarily because I was getting concerned about the scratches in our fermenting bucket and I was able to buy the carboys from Kijiji (like Craigslist) for $10 each.

Since the carboys can be heavy and difficult to handle when full of beer, I made a bag from denim and heavy-duty strapping to move the carboys around and keep the light off them while the beer fermenting. There's a picture of this bag here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/carboy-cover-170568/index2.html#post5065946. The nice thing about this bag is that two people (my husband and I) can lift the full carboy and carry it downstairs to the basement where we ferment our beers.

As far as head space is concerned... most of the time we have enough room to handle primary fermentation, but I make it a point to never have to clean krausen off the ceiling so we use a blowoff tube for every batch. Our tube is just a length of clear PVC tubing from the hardware store -- I can't remember the exact diameter (1-1/2" OD?), but it fits very snugly in the neck of our carboy and the other end goes into a bucket of StarSan. For a 3 or 4 week fermentation where we don't bother with secondary, we never bother swapping out the tube for an airlock. It does a good job and there's less chance of infection if we just leave it undisturbed. I wrap some saran wrap around where the neck meets the blowoff tube, just to keep dust particles from settling in that crevice and falling in when we remove the tube for bottling.

Glass works fine for us, mostly because the price was right. If I were to buy a new fermenting vessel today, I would probably stick with glass for the sanitation benefits but I would look at the new wide-mouth glass carboys like this one: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/big-mouth-bubbler-6-5-gallon.html.

 

[chickypad]

If you really want to be sure not to mess with a blow off then I'd just go with a bucket like yooper suggested. Is there a reason you are so afraid of using a blow off? It's just a piece of tubing and a container like an old jug or jar with some sanitizer in it.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

It's just new to me, so I lack confidence, but so is this whole process. I'm sure I could handle a blowoff if need be. This thread is definitely helping me feel more prepared/capable.

 

[Yooper]

It's just new to me, so I lack confidence, but so is this whole process. I'm sure I could handle a blowoff if need be. This thread is definitely helping me feel more prepared/capable.

While attention to detail is important, remember that even people like me can make beer- it's not rocket surgery.

You can definitely handle all of these details, so try not to worry about it overmuch. As long as you sanitize everything, it's really hard to mess up too badly.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

For a 3 or 4 week fermentation where we don't bother with secondary, we never bother swapping out the tube for an airlock. It does a good job and there's less chance of infection if we just leave it undisturbed.

I didn't realize that was an option! What does switching from the tube to the airlock accomplish?

As a related question, if I were to use a blowoff, would I put it in as I start fermentation, or just when it looks like the head is going to reach the top of the fermenter?

 

[RM-MN]

Are you going to be awake 24 hours a day to watch the fermenter incase it looks like it might need a blowoff? It's best to start with one and not need it than to need one and not have it. A blowoff is just a bigger airlock with a bigger opening so it won't get clogged. Switching to a smaller one is nice because there will be less stuff in the way to knock over and make spill. Most of the time it isn't necessary. The one time it WILL be necessary is if you cold crash your beer to make the yeast flocculate and settle faster. That chilling will cause negative pressure in the fermenter which can suck back whatever is in the airlock. If you have an "S" shaped airlock nothing will be sucked back as they work well both directions. The 3 piece airlocks have only a little fluid in them to be sucked back so while not ideal, it not a big deal either. Now we get to that growler that ended up nearly full of starsan and krausen and beer that blew off. When that starts getting sucked back you could have a lot of unwanted material sucked into the beer. It's especially bad if the growler (or other large container you might use) is placed above the fermenter because one started it will continue to siphon until the tube end is exposed.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

Thanks for the info! So unless I'm doing that one type of cold brewing, there's no reason not to just set up my fermentation with a blowoff tube and leave it that way the whole time?

 

[RM-MN]

Well, unless you have kids around you can just leave the blowoff. With kids you never know just what they may do to amuse themselves.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

I have an almost-two-year-old, so I know how that goes. Luckily I found a nice spot in a closet to clear out for the fermentation, so she won't be able to get to it. Seems like a pretty solid way to go would be a 6 gallon Better Bottle with a blowoff just in case it fills up with foam (and/or I want to do a 6 gallon batch). The port on the Better Bottle is appealing, but it doesn't seem necessary, and it's one more thing to get infected with evil bacteria.

 

[mozltovcoktail]

Ok, I ordered a 6 gallon Better Bottle (no port) and a Big Blow closure from labelpeelers.com. I'm going to use PVC piping to create the type of blowoff system shown in this post: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/be...ation-blowoff-tube-pics-cleaning-info-234492/

If all goes according to plan, I'll be cooking up a 5 gallon batch of something wintery (TBD) this Saturday with a buddy.

Thanks for your advice, everybody.

 

[Hellosluggo]

Here's something I just noticed about my new Big Mouth Bubbler that I had to share: http://imgur.com/a/JN4KK#4

I've read recently that these fermenters are available at some korean markets as vessels for fermenting various liquors/wines/vegetables, etc for about half the price that some of the HB suppliers are selling them for. By all means, if you can pick them up for that much cheaper, do it.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I use a glass carboy and a strainer. I will use a bag for hops if there are a lot but I like using a strainer for 2 reasons, first to catch stuff that falls out, second is to aerate the wort.