Garrett Oliver taking shots at Brewmeister and Brewdog...

[LukeAleTime]

Whoa. I must admit that although I’ve spent a lot of time drinking craft beer in the UK the past few years (and 20+ years before that), I have never heard of Brewmeister. Nor have I tasted their beer or knowingly spoken to anyone who works for them. So, essentially, I know nothing about them. However, if the “charges” made are true, they are simply the latest of a new breed of brewers that we’ve seen here in the U.S. all too often lately.

Welcome, then, to the age of the “clown brewery”. I won’t name names – you know who they are. Instead of making beer to be delicious, instead of making public statements and representations that will lift all our boats, instead of standing ready at all hours to assist their fellow brewers….they put on the clown show. “Our beer is the strongest in the world.” “We have higher IBUs than any beer ever produced.” “We made a beer at the botttom of the ocean, in a cage filled with snakes.”

So let me be 100% clear. Not only do such people laugh at us beer fans, all day, every day….these people don’t even LIKE you. Do you understand? They think you’re a dupe. And like every con artist, they have nothing but contempt for their “marks”. They want fame, and they want money, plain and simple. And there’s always someone who’ll give them both. As Kurosawa said in his film title, “the bad sleep well”. Are you surprised at a lack of apology?

The current hot climate of craft beer breeds a lot of weeds. Craft brewers who speak ill of other craft brewers. Brewers whose beers are heavily flawed or have no consistency, not because the brewerrs are uneducated, but because they think that quality doesn’t matter, and we’ll drink anything with a cool or shocking name, story or label. Even better if it’s “rare”. A lot of them will say “hey, we’re just lke punk rockers, we do things our way.” No, you’re not a punk rocker, you’re a leech and a poseur. I took the Ramones bowling. No one can tell me anything about punk – I was there and lived it. And the Ramones could PLAY. I know – I produced shows with them. So no, there are no excuses, and these people are not “punk”. There’s a big difference between artistic freedom and narcissistic cynicism.

At this year’s Craft Brewers Conference, there were 9,600 attendees. Last year there were just over 6,000. We have, in the US, 1,800 firms that have filed for federal brewer’s licenses and plan to open in the next year. From the stage, Paul Gatza, head of the Brewer”s Association, told the crowd that our culture was being threatened by new brewers who had a greater commitment to themselves than to their customers. As he pointed out, we’ve built a great thing in craft beer. Finishing his statement, he said ‘Guys…don’t **** it up.” Here here, Paul. Only you, the beer fans, can make sure that the newbies, who we welcome with open arms, come correct.

There are also great newbies out there. Wonderful people making wonderful beer. Each one of them has left an easier and more secure path of life, leapt into thin air, and tried their best to make beers worthy of your table. I have nothing but mad respect for them. Support them, each day, every day. If they’re local, buy a pint of their beer before my beer, as a matter of principle. I hope you buy our beer too, but the new good brewers need you. The clown brewers detest you. Understand that. You know what to do.

I have no idea who the “Richard” is who posted here, but while I cannot speak to the veracity of his specific statements, I can certainly see the tide of crappiness, both organoleptic and spiritual, that some people hope to bring us. It’s dangerous to speak out these days, and some people may well take isolated quotes from this post and try to hang them around my neck. But yes, there are bad people abroad in the land. Thankfully, their ranks are small, measured in dozens, if that. They are no match for you. Send the bad ones back whence they came, plain and simple.

Garrett Oliver
Brewmaster

http://thebeercast.com/2014/04/brewmeister.html#comment-24405

Interesting reading... if a little strange and at times contradictory. It continues through the comments.

Not sure about the boasting about hanging with The Ramones; but admittedly that would be pretty fun.

 

[pjl44]

"Craft brewers who speak ill of other craft brewers. Brewers whose beers are heavily flawed or have no consistency, not because the brewerrs are uneducated, but because they think that quality doesn’t matter, and we’ll drink anything with a cool or shocking name, story or label."

Not that I disagree with him, but I mean...

 

[LukeAleTime]

"Craft brewers who speak ill of other craft brewers. Brewers whose beers are heavily flawed or have no consistency, not because the brewerrs are uneducated, but because they think that quality doesn’t matter, and we’ll drink anything with a cool or shocking name, story or label."

Not that I disagree with him, but I mean...

I've never had anything from Brooklyn that was flawed... except black ops. The flaw there was that it's a terrible beer though.

 

[pjl44]

I've never had anything from Brooklyn that was flawed... except black ops. The flaw there was that it's a terrible beer though.

I was referring to him calling out craft brewers who speak ill of other craft brewers right before he spoke ill of other craft brewers.

 

[lb304854]

I can't remember the last time I was impressed by a Garrett Oliver beer.

Never?

 

[pjl44]

I can't remember the last time I was impressed by a Garrett Oliver beer.

Never?

Getting the feeling I'm the only person on the planet who enjoys Black Ops.

 

[lb304854]

Getting the feeling I'm the only person on the planet who enjoys Black Ops.

http://www.talkbeer.com/community/threads/dont-drink-beer.6229/page-37#post-244738

Pour some Dunkin coffee into a bottle of Korbel.

 

[pjl44]

http://www.talkbeer.com/community/threads/dont-drink-beer.6229/page-37#post-244738

For the record, that also sounds delicious.

 

[LukeAleTime]

I really like the lager - I'm a sucker for a straight up malty lager and that never fails. Local 1 is really good and the brown is solid. Never been too impressed by the IPA but given it travels across the pacific to get into my mouth it's unfair to rate it based on that.

I had their IIPA recently and now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure it was a mess of flaws.

but yeah, I'll down that lager all day every day.

 

[Minnesotaryan]

Getting the feeling I'm the only person on the planet who enjoys Black Ops.

Once paid $8.99 for a bottle, rather mispriced, I felt like I paid too much

 

[1987GN]

For some reason I kept thinking of Three Floyds when he was referring to "punk" brewers.

Am I the only one who thought that?

 

[PurityControl88]

Taking a punk band bowling sounds like a mess. I imagine puke, beer and drugs everywhere.

 

[FTowne1]

Getting the feeling I'm the only person on the planet who enjoys Black Ops.

You're not alone...

 

[nanobrew1]

This is kind of what I was thinking about when I read the Mikkeller and Evil Twin article. I started to wonder why we, as a collective whole, would continue to buy kitchen sink beers that are a mess. Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in craft beer. The Bruery keeps trying to add 5 different fruits, 8 herbs, and who knows what else in a single beer. Now I like fruit beers, and I like beers with herbs/spices. But it seems like breweries are trying to out do themselves and everyone else by adding more and more **** in a beer. And as Garrett said, the base beers are completely flawed.

 

[boogercrack]

mask the flaws with adjuncts and no one will be the wiser

 

[JulianB1]

I actually found this comment from Oliver further down in that thread to be more interesting/perceptive. It's something I've thought for a while but he expressed it nicely:

I cannot quite agree with Thomas’ assertion that beer “is supposed to be a cheap product for the working man/women”. Beer has always been both “high” and “low”. Wine is exactly the same. Most wine drunk in wine-producing countries is very cheap and always has been. The beer and wine markets are actually identical in the U.S. – it’s 10% at the top (craft beers, wine in nice bottles with corks, etc) and 90% at the bottom (industrial beer, “cheap ‘n’ cheerful” plonk wine). The difference is that when people think about wine, they think of the 10% at the top. When they think of beer, they think of the 90% at the bottom.

 

[BTB Mug Club]

Brooklyn makes really average beer. I stopped buying Brooklyn beer and really don't care what their "famous" brewmaster says anymore. There, I said it.

 

[drgarage1]

This is kind of what I was thinking about when I read the Mikkeller and Evil Twin article. I started to wonder why we, as a collective whole, would continue to buy kitchen sink beers that are a mess. Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in craft beer. The Bruery keeps trying to add 5 different fruits, 8 herbs, and who knows what else in a single beer. Now I like fruit beers, and I like beers with herbs/spices. But it seems like breweries are trying to out do themselves and everyone else by adding more and more **** in a beer. And as Garrett said, the base beers are completely flawed.

Not to call your bluff, but can you be specific about the flaws in these base beers. Brewmeister are obviously frauds, and brewdog makes a bunch of bad beer, but you singled out the Bruery, describing what sounds like Tumescence. If anything, the adjuncts were what was wrong with that beer. The base beer would have been better.

 

[nanobrew1]

Not to call your bluff, but can you be specific about the flaws in these base beers. Brewmeister are obviously frauds, and brewdog makes a bunch of bad beer, but you singled out the Bruery, describing what sounds like Tumescence. If anything, the adjuncts were what was wrong with that beer. The base beer would have been better.

A lot of their earlier sours were just pure acidic. Plus some of them had off flavors (band-aids, dirty diaper, etc) early on, I cannot remember the names but I know it was a discussion on the other site. I also consider the overly sweetness a flaw in a lot of them. Most of their beers I feel are not fully attenuated, whether that is due to the yeast or adjuncts I don't know. Obviously there are the infections. While their issue was with storage and barrels other breweries (Short's) ran into the issue of throwing too many weird ingredients into the beer that they couldn't control infection issues.

Overall, I actually did not mean to single out the Bruery with my last phrase;

it seems like breweries are trying to out do themselves and everyone else by adding more and more **** in a beer. And as Garrett said, the base beers are completely flawed.

Instead I was referencing breweries in general that have that approach. Also, I was loosely meaning flawed. My intended meaning was the base beer tries to hide behind all of the adjunct ingredients.

The Bruery can make some of the best beer out their. I am not trying to put them in the same category as Brewdog or Mikkeller. I am saying I don't like the trend of breweries adding a **** ton of ingredients in a beer just for the hell of it instead of what compliments and improves the beer (Oude Tart with cherries and SitR w/ kumquats are great examples of doing this perfectly).

 

[drgarage1]

A lot of their earlier sours were just pure acidic. Plus some of them had off flavors (band-aids, dirty diaper, etc) early on, I cannot remember the names but I know it was a discussion on the other site. I also consider the overly sweetness a flaw in a lot of them. Most of their beers I feel are not fully attenuated, whether that is due to the yeast or adjuncts I don't know. Obviously there are the infections. While their issue was with storage and barrels other breweries (Short's) ran into the issue of throwing too many weird ingredients into the beer that they couldn't control infection issues.

Overall, I actually did not mean to single out the Bruery with my last phrase; Instead I was referencing breweries in general that have that approach. Also, I was loosely meaning flawed. My intended meaning was the base beer tries to hide behind all of the adjunct ingredients.

The Bruery can make some of the best beer out their. I am not trying to put them in the same category as Brewdog or Mikkeller. I am saying I don't like the trend of breweries adding a **** ton of ingredients in a beer just for the hell of it instead of what compliments and improves the beer (Oude Tart with cherries and SitR w/ kumquats are great examples of doing this perfectly).

Then we're on the same page. Short's Bloody Beer is the worst thing I have ever put in my body.

 

[nanobrew1]

Then we're on the same page. Short's Bloody Beer is the worst thing I have ever put in my body.

As someone who grew up near there, I never have had that. My parents sent me a beer package once that had a bottle of Bloody Beer. Luckily it broke in transit. Damn, that box smelled nasty.

 

[drgarage1]

As someone who grew up near there, I never have had that. My parents sent me a beer package once that had a bottle of Bloody Beer. Luckily it broke in transit. Damn, that box smelled nasty.

I'm from Michigan myself -- Midland. Where are you from?

 

[nanobrew1]

North of Traverse City in a small town called Central Lake, it is the town north of Bellaire (where Short's is located). I went to college at UM

 

[drgarage1]

North of Traverse City in a small town called Central Lake, it is the town north of Bellaire (where Short's is located). I went to college at UM

Nice -- my grandparents lived in Frankfort (tiny town SW of Traverse) until they had to go to a nursing home. Love the country up there.

 

[stupac2]

A lot of their earlier sours were just pure acidic. Plus some of them had off flavors (band-aids, dirty diaper, etc) early on, I cannot remember the names but I know it was a discussion on the other site. I also consider the overly sweetness a flaw in a lot of them. Most of their beers I feel are not fully attenuated, whether that is due to the yeast or adjuncts I don't know. Obviously there are the infections. While their issue was with storage and barrels other breweries (Short's) ran into the issue of throwing too many weird ingredients into the beer that they couldn't control infection issues.

Overall, I actually did not mean to single out the Bruery with my last phrase; Instead I was referencing breweries in general that have that approach. Also, I was loosely meaning flawed. My intended meaning was the base beer tries to hide behind all of the adjunct ingredients.

The Bruery can make some of the best beer out their. I am not trying to put them in the same category as Brewdog or Mikkeller. I am saying I don't like the trend of breweries adding a **** ton of ingredients in a beer just for the hell of it instead of what compliments and improves the beer (Oude Tart with cherries and SitR w/ kumquats are great examples of doing this perfectly).

I've been thinking the same thing about the Bruery. I feel like they made their name with making crazy tasty, and are trying to keep it up. The problem is that it's been 6 years, by now they should have a handle on what works and what doesn't and put way more emphasis on what works. The past year of beers feel like they're being too cute by half. Simplify, focus on what you do well, and limit the "creative" beers.

It still boggles my mind how little they've played with hottenroth. You have a Berliner that basically everyone loves, but you almost never bottle it. You never add fruit to it, despite that being all the rage now (maybe they don't want to feel like followers? That'd be meaningful if they weren't "Dogfish Head 2: this time the beer doesn't suck"). I just don't get it. Do the obvious thing that'll make good beer, stop ****ing around.

 

[spicecowboy]

I've been thinking the same thing about the Bruery. I feel like they made their name with making crazy tasty, and are trying to keep it up. The problem is that it's been 6 years, by now they should have a handle on what works and what doesn't and put way more emphasis on what works. The past year of beers feel like they're being too cute by half. Simplify, focus on what you do well, and limit the "creative" beers.

I tend to agree with this, although Melange#9 was definitely an example of what works. Innnovative, unique, and inspired.

Although I've no doubt some palates would hate it.