First all grain brew: Hop Fiction Clone - BrewDog

[Matheos]

Hi guys!

I recently got myself a Klarstein Maischfest 35L brewing system, but I am yet to try it. My plan is to brew the "Hop Fiction" brewdog clone based on this recipe: PROTOTYPE CHALLENGE - HOP FICTION - BrewDog Recipes

The main reason I am making this post is because I need some help clarifying the recipe. I have entered it into brewfather, just for fun, but I noticed that the IBU was way less than what the recipe states. The recipe says 40 IBU while the calculator says only 21 IBU (tinseth). I know there are many different formulas for calculating IBU, but as I have no experience, nor does brewdog state what formula they use, I cannot know for sure what to believe. To achieve 40 IBU tinseth in brewfather, I added an additional bittering addition of 8g of Engima 18,6AA hops to the recipe: Brewfather.
I have entered the hops according to my own hops' AA values, except for Amarillo and Mosaic which I do not currently have at home. I know these values may differ, but they would have to differ A LOT in order for the given additions to reach 40 IBU tinseth.
The minutes of the additions are not very specific in the recipe, but from reading the exportable RAW beerXML file, I got the minutes 60 and 0 which I use in my recipe. The duration of the dry hop is just a guess.

What do you guys think? Does the brewdog recipe seem to use tinseth, rager or some other formula? And, would you recommend I add my enigma addition or skip it?

Other than that, any tips for my first all grain?

 

[Jag75]

Is your brewing equipment on the program accurate? Is the kit batch size the same as you entered on the program?

For your first AG brew Id just brew the kit. However thats just me , its really your call. If the kit is accurate and the IBUs are around 40 and you add hops you might get a beer too bitter then you want. Brewing kit as is at least you'll know if it needs adjustments next time.

 

[Matheos]

Is your brewing equipment on the program accurate? Is the kit batch size the same as you entered on the program?

For your first AG brew Id just brew the kit. However thats just me , its really your call. If the kit is accurate and the IBUs are around 40 and you add hops you might get a beer too bitter then you want. Brewing kit as is at least you'll know if it needs adjustments next time.

Thanks for the reply!
When u say kit I assume you mean recipe?
The equipment profile may be slightly off. I have never really had any equipment and there are so many fields, and I don't really know how to know what to enter... For example boil off per hour, efficiency, such things. I have never used my boiler so I hve no idea about these parameters yet. The batch size I think should match the recipe yes.

I guess u are right, maybe I leave the extra enigma out and see how it turns out. Is probably the best. However, I would really appreciate some help setting up the parameters for my brewing equipment in the calculator. Perhaps u could refer me to some good tutorial? I am on my phone atm so I won't open the app to list all paramters, but there are so many! and unfortunately, my boiler is not in the presets list.

 

[Jag75]

I've never used brewfather so I dont know the lay out , but the equipment set up and losses are universal.

What brewing set up do you have ?
You need to know how much your boil off is . You can do that by boiling for an hour and seeing whats left . Ive heard of people boiling for 15 min then x 4 .

If your using hoses , pump those losses are accounted for . Even the dead space in the kettle and mash tun are taken into account . These are pretty easy to determine. You'll figure it out more precisely as you brew and get used to your equipment.

 

[Matheos]

I've never used brewfather so I dont know the lay out , but the equipment set up and losses are universal.

What brewing set up do you have ?
You need to know how much your boil off is . You can do that by boiling for an hour and seeing whats left . Ive heard of people boiling for 15 min then x 4 .

If your using hoses , pump those losses are accounted for . Even the dead space in the kettle and mash tun are taken into account . These are pretty easy to determine. You'll figure it out more precisely as you brew and get used to your equipment.

I have the Klarstein Maischfest 35L kettle.

The boil off: If I boil and check what is left, it depends on how "fast" it is boiling? Also, lid or no lid? (again, never brewed AG before)

i will get some hoses for the cooler but not much more. No pump as of yet. The "dead space" measurement is one of the ones that I do not understand the meaning of.. Could you explain it?

Also, probably stupid question but: Kettle vs mash tun in one of these systems? Is mash tun the inner thing which holds the grain, which can be taken out? And then kettle the whole thing?

 

[Jag75]

Ok i see what you have . Your system is similar to my Grainfather. Its an all in one system , except the sparge.

I think it has an internal pump because of the recirc pipe. This system is a BIAB system (brew in a basket/bag). So you dont have a mash tun.

These all in one systems are nice . Small footprint and easy brewing systems. Did this come with a manual that had a grain and water calculation? Have you checked YouTube to see this thing in action?

As for dead space , its the space at the bottom that is left behind under the valve or filter pick up. For instance, if I'm brewing a 5 gallon batch I have to have 6 gallons after the sparge because my boil off plus dead space is about 1 gallon.

The Grainfather has an app that is very helpful. Maybe your system does as well. Good luck with your new system and happy brewing!

I leave the lid on when getting up to boiling temp then take it off when boil starts.

 

[Matheos]

Ok i see what you have . Your system is similar to my Grainfather. Its an all in one system , except the sparge.

I think it has an internal pump because of the recirc pipe. This system is a BIAB system (brew in a basket/bag). So you dont have a mash tun.

These all in one systems are nice . Small footprint and easy brewing systems. Did this come with a manual that had a grain and water calculation? Have you checked YouTube to see this thing in action?

As for dead space , its the space at the bottom that is left behind under the valve or filter pick up. For instance, if I'm brewing a 5 gallon batch I have to have 6 gallons after the sparge because my boil off plus dead space is about 1 gallon.

The Grainfather has an app that is very helpful. Maybe your system does as well. Good luck with your new system and happy brewing!

I leave the lid on when getting up to boiling temp then take it off when boil starts.

Thanks for the explanations!

It came with a manual but very short instructions and in very bad English lol. No grain and water calculations. I guess they know german better. https://res.cloudinary.com/chal-tec/image/upload/bbg/10032121/bda/10032121.pdf I am not sure how far I will follow these instructions LMAO

That is btw all that is said about making wort.

Klarstein have an app, but it is just for controlling their smart home devices. It has nothing to do with brewing

I have watched it in action on youtube, though videos with this system are very hard to find. It is mostly available in EU I think (or easily available). I have a friend who owns it so I can ask him if I have questions, but he is again not very interested in recipe calculators and calculations and such, so I won't get much help from him in that department.

 

[Jag75]

You might just have to do trial and error. I'm curious how close it is to the Grainfather efficiency and function wise . Its the same size i believe. You can look at Brewersfriend , Beersmith ect... and look to see if someone has the profile set up for that unit.

Basically with your set up you need to figure out how much your boil off is . Add say 6 gallons of water , boil for 60 min then see whats left, hopefully it has Liter/gallon markings inside. Then pump out to a pot and measure what you get .

So if after a boil the 6 gallons is now at the 5.25 mark your boil off is .75 gallons. Then when you pump out the 5.25 gallons into a pot measure it. Lets say you have 5 gallons . That means your dead space is .25 gallons .

You dont need a massive violent boil . A nice rolling boil is good. Once you figure out your numbers it will get better and better . With a system like that you could have efficiency in the 80s.

 

[hout17]

Also note that the amount of hops you add is dependent upon the alpha acid percentage in said hops. For example Fuggle Hops range from 3 to 7 percent so you would need to add or subtract the amount of hops based on the alpha acid content to hit the correct IBU's.

So make sure the alpha acid content for a particular hop in the software mirrors the alpha acid content in the hops you received.

Edit: It looks like the OP did look at AA content don't know how I missed that lol.

Brew on!

 

[Matheos]

You might just have to do trial and error. I'm curious how close it is to the Grainfather efficiency and function wise . Its the same size i believe. You can look at Brewersfriend , Beersmith ect... and look to see if someone has the profile set up for that unit.

Basically with your set up you need to figure out how much your boil off is . Add say 6 gallons of water , boil for 60 min then see whats left, hopefully it has Liter/gallon markings inside. Then pump out to a pot and measure what you get .

So if after a boil the 6 gallons is now at the 5.25 mark your boil off is .75 gallons. Then when you pump out the 5.25 gallons into a pot measure it. Lets say you have 5 gallons . That means your dead space is .25 gallons .

You dont need a massive violent boil . A nice rolling boil is good. Once you figure out your numbers it will get better and better . With a system like that you could have efficiency in the 80s.

Very good tips again! Thanks! I will test it out the way you described. Unfortunately I don't think the kettle has any markings, which is absurd... I will just have to measure water and throw it in there and measure what comes out... I will let you know how it goes!

 

[Matheos]

@Jag75

Okay so I decided to boil only 15L to save some time. As the system was new to me it was a bit of an experience to know how to set up the parameters in order to get a good constant rolling boil, which may affect the results.

Boil off: 2.31L (0.61 Gal)
Dead space: 2L pretty spot on (0.53 Gal)

These are now my current equipment settings:

Anything else I need to change? I guess the efficiencies I cannot know until I have brewed? I might also redo the experiment tomorrow or something, now when I know from the start better how to get a constant boil. I started the clock when the boil started, that is correct right? I mean steam rises before the boil too..?

 

[Matheos]

Redid it today with 25L and more consistant boil. The results confuse me a bit
Boil off: 1.13L (0.299 Gal)
Dead space: 2.57L (0.679 Gal)

The differences may be that I let some of the water cool a bit yestersay before I measured, and today most was quite hot... Maybe I should redo it a third time and do some average

I must say though, the lack of measurements on the system is extremely annoying. Will need to use a measuring tape on brew day