First All Grain Batch Help and Questions: Please!

[goudaphunk]

Hello all,
First time poster and first time AG brewer. Today I tried to brew my first AG with the Sierra Madre Pale Ale kit from Northern Brewer. The grain bill was as follows:

American 2 Row 10 lbs.
2-Row Caramel Malt 60L 0.75.

My Sacc rest temp was a target of 152. I boiled my strike water to 165 and transferred into my MLT. I added the grains in three steps, all while stirring to ensure there were not doughballs. I followed the formula of 1.25 QT/ per pound/4. That gave me around 3.4 gallons of water for mashing. I am using the AG system from Northern Brewer with the insulated water coolers. The temp dipped to 147 at one point, so I added about 1/2 gallon of water that was about 160. This raised the temp slightly. By the end of my SACC rest, I was at about 149. My target temp was 152.

As per my reading online, I boiled 1.5 gallons of water for the Mashout to 175 degrees. According to the recipe, my optimal mashout temp was 170 for 10 minutes. Unfortunately, the temp only reached 155. Clearly, I did something wrong. Should I have had the 1.5 gallons at a higher temp prior to mashout?

After my mashout, I recirculated the wort for clarity and then used 5 gallons of water that was 170 degrees for sparging and lautering. I ended up with around 7 gallons in my BK, which I thought was high.

I added my hops according to the recipe and boiled for 60 minutes.

So, my questions are...(and PLEASE pardon the newbie questions. I'm still new to AG brewing)

Does the 60 minutes start when all the wort is in the BK, or when it actually boils?

When do I check the OG?

Once I am done boiling and chilling the wort using a chiller, do I then transfer to my fermenter and pitch the yeast when the wort is around 78 degrees?

Please let me know if you need anything clarified or if you have any questions. I'd really appreciate some feedback! Thanks so much.

 

[goudaphunk]

Here is the link to NB Sierra Madre AG recipe.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-SierraMadrePaleAle.pdf

 

[Yooper]

Does the 60 minutes start when all the wort is in the BK, or when it actually boils?

When do I check the OG?

Once I am done boiling and chilling the wort using a chiller, do I then transfer to my fermenter and pitch the yeast when the wort is around 78 degrees?

Please let me know if you need anything clarified or if you have any questions. I'd really appreciate some feedback! Thanks so much.

You start your timer when the wort actually comes to a boil. Most people wait until after the "hot break", when the wort stops foaming up and trying to foam out over the kettle, before adding the 60 minute hops and setting their timer for 60 minutes.

You should check the OG once all your wort is in the kettle (along with how much you have) by cooling your sample and making sure your preboil gravity is on target. You can make adjustments on the fly if not, so that's a good time to correct it.

After that, you cool the wort to FAR below 78 degrees!!!!!! to 65 degrees or so, take an OG reading and add the yeast.

 

[MarkInBuffalo]

The 60 minute clock starts when your wort starts to boil. You should check your OG after you're done chilling the wort, before pitching the yeast. 78 is a bit high to pitch IMO, I would try to get it below 70. I've found that a lot of these mash temp calculators online tend to be a few degrees lower when giving strike water temperatures. To mash at 152 I usually heat to 168 and hit it no problem. Cheers

 

[goudaphunk]

Thanks for the response. If my OG comes up low while in the kettle after taking a sample, what are some things I can do on the fly?

 

[goudaphunk]

The 60 minute clock starts when your wort starts to boil. You should check your OG after you're done chilling the wort, before pitching the yeast. 78 is a bit high to pitch IMO, I would try to get it below 70. I've found that a lot of these mash temp calculators online tend to be a few degrees lower when giving strike water temperatures. To mash at 152 I usually heat to 168 and hit it no problem. Cheers

Do you leave a thermometer in the MLT during the SACC rest? I have a nice digital one that has a long chord and I did that today.

 

[Pratzie]

Thanks for the response. If my OG comes up low while in the kettle after taking a sample, what are some things I can do on the fly?

Add some DME to bring it back up. Or boil longer. Evaporation of water will help raise the gravity.

Also as far as raising the temp DURING the mash if it drops, i like to use boiling water not just warm (170) water. I read somewhere, and i can't remember where, that it is the best way to use as little water as possible to raise it up where it should be.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the response. If my OG comes up low while in the kettle after taking a sample, what are some things I can do on the fly?

If you're also low on volume, you can sparge some more and boil longer. That can be a pain, though, so you can add some DME (1 pound gives you 9 points in a 5 gallon batch). If you're high, you can add some water.

If you're just a little low, you can simply reduce your bittering hops and not adjust anything else and still have a balanced beer. It really depends on the preboil SG you have, and the volume, and the hops schedule.

 

[MarkInBuffalo]

Do you leave a thermometer in the MLT during the SACC rest? I have a nice digital one that has a long chord and I did that today.

Not for the entire mash. I put it in as I'm "mashing in" (mixing the grain and water). I stir like hell, and as soon as the thermometer hits my target temp, I take thermometer out, cap it immediately and let it be. Some folks stir and re-check temperature mid-mash, but in my case I know that my temperature stays constant the entire time, if anything it will drop one degree.

 

[goudaphunk]

If you're also low on volume, you can sparge some more and boil longer. That can be a pain, though, so you can add some DME (1 pound gives you 9 points in a 5 gallon batch). If you're high, you can add some water.

If you're just a little low, you can simply reduce your bittering hops and not adjust anything else and still have a balanced beer. It really depends on the preboil SG you have, and the volume, and the hops schedule.

How do I know what DME to get?

 

[goudaphunk]

If you're also low on volume, you can sparge some more and boil longer. That can be a pain, though, so you can add some DME (1 pound gives you 9 points in a 5 gallon batch). If you're high, you can add some water.

If you're just a little low, you can simply reduce your bittering hops and not adjust anything else and still have a balanced beer. It really depends on the preboil SG you have, and the volume, and the hops schedule.

Isn't there different types? Once again, thanks.

 

[goudaphunk]

Additionally, this is probably a really dumb question, but when you extract brew you add two gallons of water to fermenter. Do I have to do that with AG or just transfer the wort from the BK into fermenter without adding water?

 

[CA_Mouse]

Additionally, this is probably a really dumb question, but when you extract brew you add two gallons of water to fermenter. Do I have to do that with AG or just transfer the wort from the BK into fermenter without adding water?

Unless you are brewing with less water than your recipe states, All Grain is a full amount of water/wort.

As far as what type of LME/DME to use, it depends on the beer you are brewing. In most cases you want the lightest that you can find, since it will impart the least amount of color and flavor as possible.

Mouse

 

[goudaphunk]

Unless you are brewing with less water than your recipe states, All Grain is a full amount of water/wort.

As far as what type of LME/DME to use, it depends on the beer you are brewing. In most cases you want the lightest that you can find, since it will impart the least amount of color and flavor as possible.

Mouse

Thanks! Looking forward to trying to correct my mistakes.

 

[Pratzie]

Isn't there different types? Once again, thanks.

Something similar to ur base malt. Light and Extra Light DME works well for most. Its not a catch all though so just keep it close to ur base malt.

 

[CA_Mouse]

It took me 3 or 4 brews to dial in my system, so the best thing to do is take extensive notes while you brew. Also, the nest thing to do is find your boil off rate on your kettle and the amount of dead space in your mash tun.

For your mash tun, fill it with a pre-measured amount of water and then drain it. Measure what you get out, the difference is your dead space in the mash tun. The boil off rate is best done under a full boil amount. I would boil as much water as you would normally have for your brew day. Boil for an hour and then cool and measure. The difference is your boil off rate, IE: you start with 7 gallons and end up with 6.25 gallons. your boil off rate is 3/4 of a gallon per hour.

Mouse

 

[jarhody]

My Sacc rest temp was a target of 152. I boiled my strike water to 165 and transferred into my MLT. I added the grains in three steps, all while stirring to ensure there were not doughballs. I followed the formula of 1.25 QT/ per pound/4. That gave me around 3.4 gallons of water for mashing. I am using the AG system from Northern Brewer with the insulated water coolers. The temp dipped to 147 at one point, so I added about 1/2 gallon of water that was about 160. This raised the temp slightly. By the end of my SACC rest, I was at about 149. My target temp was 152.

As per my reading online, I boiled 1.5 gallons of water for the Mashout to 175 degrees. According to the recipe, my optimal mashout temp was 170 for 10 minutes. Unfortunately, the temp only reached 155. Clearly, I did something wrong. Should I have had the 1.5 gallons at a higher temp prior to mashout?

I have the Northern Brew grain kit as well and this is what I have found. I use a large floating therm to check the temp in the tun. I will add in 3 steps as mentioned, stir well and seal the lid for a couple minutes. Open stir one more time and hold the therm above the grain bed. Usually the temp is good. I noticed that if I leave the therm in the grain the temp seems much lower. I use the 12 degree rule of thumb for the strike water.

For the mash out do you stir well? Also keep in mind the possible effects if your therm is in the grain bed. Also from reading many brewers skip the mash out altogether and go straight to sparging. So you should be fine.

Maybe someone with more experience than me could confirm if we should be using the grain bed temp vs the method I describe above for checking the mash temp above the grain bed?

 

[Yooper]

The important temperature is the temperature IN the grainbed/mash.

What I do is mash in, and stir like I mean it. Then check the temperature. If it's ok, check it in at least three different places. If it's the same, I'm done. Cover and walk away. If it's different, stir some more.

The mash temperature should be equalized throughout the grainbed. If it's not, and there are "hot spots" or "cold spots", it needs to be stirred some more. Once it's equalized throughout, it's good.

 

[jarhody]

Thanks Yooper! Sounds like maybe my first stir is not enough to even out the temp. I'll make sure I mean it next time!

 

[CA_Mouse]

I measure the temp of my strike water, I pre-heat my mash tun to 122F with hot tap water, measure the temp of my grain and measure immediately after I mash in my grains. If I need to add hotter water or cooler water then I do. I have filtered cool water that was boiled and water that was heated with my strike water available when I mash in. Since I batch sparge, I don't worry about a mash out step.

Mouse

 

[stpug]

When do I check the OG?

You should check the OG once all your wort is in the kettle (along with how much you have) by cooling your sample and making sure your preboil gravity is on target. You can make adjustments on the fly if not, so that's a good time to correct it.

Just to clarify, you should check your OG when you are done boiling (or *think* you are done boiling) using the method Yooper suggested. This gravity reading should be close to what is stated on the northerbrewer pdf you linked us to.

In addition, you can check the SG of the preboil (i.e. all runnings combined) to ensure you're on target for the correct OG and make adjustments (on the fly) as Yooper suggested. This gravity reading should be less than the pdf you linked us to.

Maybe I was not understanding the reply but I felt this needed a little clarification.

 

[CA_Mouse]

The important temperature is the temperature IN the grainbed/mash.

What I do is mash in, and stir like I mean it. Then check the temperature. If it's ok, check it in at least three different places. If it's the same, I'm done. Cover and walk away. If it's different, stir some more.

The mash temperature should be equalized throughout the grainbed. If it's not, and there are "hot spots" or "cold spots", it needs to be stirred some more. Once it's equalized throughout, it's good.

I can't agree more! I slowly stir my grain into my strike water and, as Yooper said, stir like I mean it the entire time. I have a rectangular mash tun, so I check my temperature in all four corners and in the center to make sure I have equal temperatures all through my grain bed. Add water (hot or cool) and close it up. I know that I only lose 1F per hour, so my timer is started and I start on other things, like heating my sparge water, measuring out my hops and bagging them, preparing my fermentation vessel and making sure I have my yeast ready.

Mouse