Feedback on Barley Wine

[Aa760]

Greetings, HBT'ers. I am working up a Barleywine to brew this coming weekend- have been doing research and looking at sample recipes and techniques for going on three years now. I am just about ready to throw down- here are my goals:

Inspiration/Goal: Somewhere between FW Sucaba and SN Bigfoot- yes, I know that is a wide range of Barleywines, I love the oak aged aspects of sucaba, but appreciate the hoppyness and drier nature of Bigfoot. I used some notes from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles.

I bottle condition, and the last strong brew I did took more than a year to carb- it was a 13% BDS. It is drinking nice now, 2 years later, but is bigger than I want to go on this brew, in terms of booziness. I realize that some boozy notes are inherent in a BW, but I would like to tone this down, and am therefore shooting for something about 9.5-10%, still a respectable ABV, IMHO.

Here goes:

Water: 11 Gallons RO water, CaCl2 and Gypsum per Gordon Strong's Recommendation (which should I use- his malty recommendation or hoppy?)

Grain/Fermentables:
17 lbs 2Row, US
0.5 lbs Crystal 20
0.5 lbs Crystal 80
0.25 lbs Chocolate Malt (Belgian?)
0.25 lbs Special B
1 lb Turbinado (@ Flameout)

Mash @ 149, 90 Minute Boil
OG: 1.090

Hops:
2 oz Magnum @ 60 (my typical bittering hop- or should I use something with a little more character like chinook or nugget?)
1.5 oz Amarillo @ 5
1.5 oz Centennial @ 5
1 oz Chinook @ 5

Misc:
Whirlfloc @ 10 min
Yeast Nutrient (3 tsp) and DAP (1 tsp) @ 10 mins

IBU:
80.1

BU/GU:
0.918

Yeast:
WLP 007, Dry English Ale Yeast, 2 L Starter + 1 Vial for good measure, I don't want a lack of yest to lead to a lack of attenuation.

Cool to 62, Pitch, Pure O2 through sintered stone for 60 seconds

Set fermentation chamber to 65 and let it ride! Raise temp to 70 once fermentation is slowed to encourage finish.

Primary for 3 weeks, minimum.

Rack onto Bourbon Oak: I have some cool stuff- pieces of a used bourbon oak barrel, that I have been soaking in Makers Mark for almost a year now. Could use guidance on how much. Pieces are bigger than cubes, smaller than staves. Picture attached. I was thinking between 3-5 ounces for about a month, then package/bottle to bulk age. Should be ready by next holiday season.
Thoughts?





I really would like to hear from the community. Your thoughts/criticisms/ideas? These types of brews are not every day numbers, so I am hoping to put this out to the community to get feedback in hopes of the best possible outcome the first time out, as I don't plan on rebrewing this often. I know this is a long post- I hop you find it interesting enough to offer some advise or opinion! Thanks!

 

[slym2none]

A year to carbonate? Seriously???

Now I am worried about how long it will take for my 10.8% one to carb...

 

[Aa760]

The big boys take MUCH longer to carb up, in my experience. I like bottling but for the really strong beers, force carbonating is a much more reliable way to package a beer. Did you add additional yeast at bottling? That can be helpful, although time is the most important ingredient.

 

[solbes]

Here are my suggestions:

Sub Marris Otter for your 2 row. Cut the C20 and C80 to maybe half of that. It will be pretty sweet as it is. Maybe add another 5-10 IBU of hoppy goodness. Consider going bigger than a 2L starter + 1 vial of yeast. You want this one to knock it out of the park (I pitched on 3/4 of a yeast cake).

As to the oaking, most have not used such large pieces as you have (they look awesome BTW). I would have to believe that you could go as high as 4 or 5 oz and still give it some good contact time. Start sampling at 3 weeks, but hopefully you can go 6-8 weeks to get more of the great properties of 1 yr soaked oak.

 

[slym2none]

The big boys take MUCH longer to carb up, in my experience. I like bottling but for the really strong beers, force carbonating is a much more reliable way to package a beer. Did you add additional yeast at bottling? That can be helpful, although time is the most important ingredient.

Mine is still in the fermenter, will be bottling later this week. I have had convos here about it already, the concensus is that I should have plenty of viable yeast for carbing since I only made a 2.5 gallon batch and used an entire packet of US-05 on it.

I am planning on waiting for Christmastime to even try one for the first time, now I am hoping that's enough time!

 

[Aa760]

Slym- Glad to see I am not the only one seeking help for a big brew such as this one. I like that we have this forum to help us get things as "right" as possible the first time out. A little feedback before the brew can be work 2-3 iterations of a brew, which is especially valuable with a brew that involves as much turn around as a barley wine. Good luck with your brew- It may carbonate sooner, but I am sure you will be drinking it by Christmas- we think alike in terms of timing!

Solbes-
I was thinking about MO, too! I think I needed a push to spend some more cash. I think it will be worth it. Thanks for that.

With regards to the crystal- I put it in there for some body and to help fight the booziness of the BW. Beersmith says to expect a final gravity of 1.013. I am not arguing with your advice to cut the crystal but looking for more information on this one. I fear that not having enough crystal in there will make the alcohol level of the beer be perceived as harsh as opposed to blending in with the overall impression of the beer. Your thoughts are welcome in helping me understand this.

Thanks for the compliment on the oak- I thought it was good stuff too and have been saving it for a special occasion. I will look to upping the quantity to 4-5 ounces as you suggested and checking on it as we go- I am hoping for a depth of oak character that showcases the vanilla and toasty wood character of a bourbon barrel ages beer like sucaba.

For yeast, I could pitch both vials into the 2L starter and go from there, or should I step it up instead, starting the starter tomorrow, crashing after 48 hours and then getting it going again? How much time do I need to step up a starter?

I appreciate the feedback and welcome more.

 

[solbes]

I think sometimes beer softwares underestimate the FG of big beers like Barleywines and Russian Imperial Stouts. I would guess you finish north of 1.015, likely in the 1.020 range. I don't think you will struggle with having enough body and sweetness, but maybe you should leave it in if you up the IBU's just a tad.

Either plan will work from a starter standpoint. Stepping a starter on a stir plate is pretty quick, but will add about 3 days with the crash without one.

 

[fantomlord]

Here are my suggestions:

Sub Marris Otter for your 2 row. Cut the C20 and C80 to maybe half of that. It will be pretty sweet as it is. Maybe add another 5-10 IBU of hoppy goodness. Consider going bigger than a 2L starter + 1 vial of yeast. You want this one to knock it out of the park (I pitched on 3/4 of a yeast cake).

As to the oaking, most have not used such large pieces as you have (they look awesome BTW). I would have to believe that you could go as high as 4 or 5 oz and still give it some good contact time. Start sampling at 3 weeks, but hopefully you can go 6-8 weeks to get more of the great properties of 1 yr soaked oak.

^that, or Pale Ale Malt...something with a little more character.

Slym- Glad to see I am not the only one seeking help for a big brew such as this one. I like that we have this forum to help us get things as "right" as possible the first time out. A little feedback before the brew can be work 2-3 iterations of a brew, which is especially valuable with a brew that involves as much turn around as a barley wine. Good luck with your brew- It may carbonate sooner, but I am sure you will be drinking it by Christmas- we think alike in terms of timing!

Solbes-
I was thinking about MO, too! I think I needed a push to spend some more cash. I think it will be worth it. Thanks for that.

With regards to the crystal- I put it in there for some body and to help fight the booziness of the BW. Beersmith says to expect a final gravity of 1.013. I am not arguing with your advice to cut the crystal but looking for more information on this one. I fear that not having enough crystal in there will make the alcohol level of the beer be perceived as harsh as opposed to blending in with the overall impression of the beer. Your thoughts are welcome in helping me understand this.

Thanks for the compliment on the oak- I thought it was good stuff too and have been saving it for a special occasion. I will look to upping the quantity to 4-5 ounces as you suggested and checking on it as we go- I am hoping for a depth of oak character that showcases the vanilla and toasty wood character of a bourbon barrel ages beer like sucaba.

For yeast, I could pitch both vials into the 2L starter and go from there, or should I step it up instead, starting the starter tomorrow, crashing after 48 hours and then getting it going again? How much time do I need to step up a starter?

I appreciate the feedback and welcome more.

you won't need help with body in a beer that big.

You could always sparge with a little more water than normal, and do a 2 hour boil. that will give you some more complexity.

I think your recipe looks good...keep things nice and simple with a BW, and let the long boil give you your depth of flavor.

 

[misterkidd]

+1 on the crystal malt reduction suggestion. Especially if you are going to use MO.