ESB Critique

[bhondorp]

10lbs Maris Otter
10oz British Crystal ~65L
10oz British Crystal ~121L
10oz Wheat (Torrified)
1oz Chocolate Malt (for color)

BIAB Mash @152 for 100 Minutes (w/10 minute mashout @168)

Est OG 1.059
Est FG 1.016

Boil @ 100C for 100 minutes

60 mins 1oz Target 11% aa
15 mins 1oz EKG 5% aa
5 mins 1oz EKG 5% aa

Whirlpool, Cool to pitching temp, and Pitch 1L of Wyeast 1968

Ferment @68 for 5 weeks

Carb to 2.2 vols


A few questions
1) Too much crystal?
2) Too much wheat?
3) Will it be to sweet @1.016 FG?


Thanks!
Brian

 

[mjohnson]

Personally, I'd back off on the crystal. Probably to no more than 5%. I also don't know if I'd put any wheat in it at all. I think the malt character you want will come from the MO and using a lower attenuative yeast. I don't think you want sweet at all. I'm looking through my copy of "Old British Beers and How To Make Them" and most of them seem to be pretty much just pale malt (likely MO).

Here's a thread about attempting to clone Fullers...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-fullers-esb-178991/
I think the base recipe actually comes from the Fullers brewery, if that means anything.

Good luck!

 

[BigEd]

A few questions
1) Too much crystal?

At 12.5% overall it isn't necessarily too much although I would not use as much 120L as you have. An ESB is one of those rare brews that can handle a fair amount of crystal IMO but I would cut the 120L back to ~4 oz.

2) Too much wheat?

No, I don't think so. At 5% you're about right. The torrified wheat will counterbalance some of the sweetness of the crystal and can add a nice grainy note to the beer.

3) Will it be to sweet @1.016 FG?

First, you can't count on the beer hitting a theoretical FG target from a recipe program. I would check the IBUs as at first glance I'm not sure they will be high enough to provide the right balance. With an OG of 1.059 I'd look for an IBU number in the low 40s and as I said above consider cutting back on the 120L crystal.

 

[badlee]

I would say that 10% is where you should max out with the crystal. Think about an addition of sugar as it is added to most English beers.
Any UK beer does well with 80% base malt, 10 spec and 10% sugar.

 

[GinSlinger]

Let me say that my first batch using 1968 is currently fermenting, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think 68 is close to the high side being recommended. Here is what bierhaus15 suggested for a temp schedule

Also, regarding the ferment temp schedule, don't worry if you can't cold crash. Just pitch low (62-64F) and slowly let the temp rise to 66-68F and then give it a week or two for a good D-rest. Crash cooling helps with flavor and clarity, but it is not necessary if you are dealing with a yeast that throws lots of diacetyl.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/brewing-bottle-1968-what-have-i-done-400524/#post5044144

Also, as to the crystal advice you'll get (the 10%ers): you'll read over and over around here that you shouldn't exceed 10% crystal in most recipes. I'm not so sure that's the right number. If you look at the favorite recipes around here, there are those English and American ales with slightly more (I'm brewing Orfy's Hobgoblin II, which is at roughly 12% (if one includes the chocolate malt as crystal). When you find the well-regarded clones for a variety of English and American ales, you'll see many of them have around 12% crystal--much to some people's surprise. It's pretty clear that SNPA and many of Stone's beers have more than 10% crystal. I'm not experienced enough to tell you 12% is definitely fine, but I've decided it's okay for me. If you get 1968 to attenuate well (by following bierhaus15's advice in that link), you should be good at that percentage.

 

[StMarcos]

I think you'll get plenty of colour from the xtal malt without the chocolate.

 

[Flatspin]

I'd actually agree with dropping the crystal down to around 5%. If you want some residual sweetness, try taking about a quart of your first runnings and boiling it on your stove over medium-high heat until you have about a cup left (around 20 minutes on my stove), then add back to your boil pot. Personally, this is my favorite way to add some sweetness to British style beers.

 

[ajf]

When I make an ESB I usually use 95% M.O. (9.5 lbs) and 5% English crystal 60 (8 oz), and no other malt.
I've tried darkening it a bit by adding about 4 oz Muntons Dark Crystal (about 135L). It tasted like I'd added a handful of roasted barley - most unpleasant.
I've also tried adding small amounts of roast barley, or chocolate malt added with the mash. Both of these also tasted very unpleasant, but I haven't tried adding the chocolate or roast barley at the end of the mash which is supposed to get rid of the bitterness.
The best results I got with some dark malt was adding 4 oz Briess Crystal 120. It had the desired effect on the color, but to be honest I preferred the taste without the dark crystal. Of course, everybody's taste is difference.
I think your 10 oz dark crystal and the chocolate is too much.
I've also tried the torrified wheat with good results. I use 8 oz, but I doubt that the extra 2 oz would cause any problems.
Your hop schedule is very similar to mine. I replace the 5 min addition with a flame out addition. Every time I've used the wheat or dark malts, I have reduced the hop additions by 25%, not because it's necessary, but because my all time favorite beer in this category was Gales HSB (a bit darker, definitely contained some torrified wheat, and was less hoppy than most beers of this style.

-a.