Dry Astringent/Bitter Finish

[UTaustinBrewer]

After a couple years of time away from brewing due to a couple new mouths to feed, I am hopped back into things with what I hoped would be a simple west coast ipa, one of my favorite styles. I just moved so I had to scope out a new brew supply store, and needless to say, I won't be going back. Their fridges were broken with 3-4 year old yeasts, half the grain was full of bugs, they charged $4+/lb of grain. I should have just walked away when he told me the prices but I honestly felt bad for the guy. So I ended up having to come up with a recipe on the fly based on what he had lying around.

5 Gallon batch
11 lb Golden Promise
1 lb Sucrose

1oz Magnum @ 30
1.5 oz Simcoe/cascade/centennial blend @ 10
1.5 oz Simcoe/cascade/centennial blend @ 0

40 minute mash.
30 minute boil.
BIAB

Fermentis S-04 @ 62 for 5days
DA rest and Dry hop 3oz Simcoe/cascade/centennial blend @ 70 (turned up spunding valve to finish under pressure and start carb)
Cold crashed for 4 days.

Fully closed transfer to keg two nights ago and tasted last night for the first time.

Hop aroma was fantastic, but way more floral and candylike than I was expecting. Very mild residual sweetness, nice crisp bitterness and good carb level. Mild slightly underwhelming hop flavour. So far pretty solid given the low expectations I had taking quite a bit of time off. BUT THE FINISH was horrible. Dry and astringent, I have never had a beer with a similar finish. My mashout ran a bit away from me at 180 before I pulled the grain. Maybe the dry hops stayed in a bit too long while I was out of town. But I honestly don't think those would cause this almost chemical bitter quality to the finish. I am hoping it will age out because without that, I think the beer is fantastic. Any thoughts on where this flavor might be from?

For anyone that has tried powdered caffeine, that's the kind of chemical dryness/bitterness I was experiencing.

Going to try another pint in a few days to see if she mellows out a bit.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/brewsession/456198https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1360551/west-coast-ipa

 

[AlexKay]

If your water is (quite) hard, a 180 F mash out will pull out a ton of tannins and you'll be left with something undrinkable. (Ask me how I know.)

There really isn't much reason to mash out when you're BIAB-ing.

 

[UTaustinBrewer]

Thanks for the reply.

It could be the water, but I did use distilled water with brewing salts to match brewers friend’s light and hoppy profile.

 

[thiagoedwardo]

you measured the water ph? it could impact on tannin extraction (is what i heard). So this high temperature, along with water profile probably did that.

 

[AlexKay]

That profile has no carbonate/bicarbonate additions, is that right?

And just to follow up, you said “astringent” once, but then described it as “bitter.” Was it really an astringent sucking-on-a-teabag mouthfeel, or was it bitter?

 

[UTaustinBrewer]

you measured the water ph? it could impact on tannin extraction (is what i heard). So this high temperature, along with water profile probably did that.

I don’t have a PH meter, but given distilled water and mineral additions the water calc has an expected 5.2 mash ph.

That profile has no carbonate/bicarbonate additions, is that right?

And just to follow up, you said “astringent” once, but then described it as “bitter.” Was it really an astringent sucking-on-a-teabag mouthfeel, or was it bitter?

It has both. There is hop bitterness which doesn’t seem out of line with the ibu’s but there is definitely some astringency. No, I must have lost them in the move. Given it calculated the ph to be in the right range I figured I was ok(I don’t have a ph meter though).

 

[Bassman2003]

Are you using a keg? If so, when was the last time you cleaned the lines? Just something to check. Not sure on the cause. Only 10 degrees over for your mashout seems like an unlikely culprit. Especially if you pH was in line under 6.

 

[UTaustinBrewer]

Are you using a keg? If so, when was the last time you cleaned the lines? Just something to check. Not sure on the cause. Only 10 degrees over for your mashout seems like an unlikely culprit. Especially if you pH was in line under 6.

I just moved so I threw in brand new keg lines. I didn’t intend to mash out at 180. My mash dipped to 148, I turned my flame back on, and stepped away for maybe 5-10 minutes. It was up to 178 when I came back so I was like “I guess I am done mashing” lol.

I didn’t measure my PH but used distilled water with minerals using brewers friend’s water calcs which spit out 5.2 as expected PH.

 

[Bassman2003]

No worries. Mashing is fairly forgiving as the enzymes take some time to actually die off. What about the QDs and faucets? Just sayin' becuase I recently had a keg line infection after changing QDs. Now I take running the cleaning line solution through more seriously! I doubt this is a tannin/mashing issue unless your thermometer is not giving reliable readings. But it is tough to know from this vantage point.

 

[UTaustinBrewer]

No worries. Mashing is fairly forgiving as the enzymes take some time to actually die off. What about the QDs and faucets? Just sayin' becuase I recently had a keg line infection after changing QDs. Now I take running the cleaning line solution through more seriously! I doubt this is a tannin/mashing issue unless your thermometer is not giving reliable readings. But it is tough to know from this vantage point.

I am starting to wonder if it’s just floating hop debris. Just pored a second pint and there seems to be less of the drying astringency.

Either that or my palate is already used to it.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have noticed over the years that the first draw should never be used to judge a brew!

 

[jayst]

How long has it been out of the fermenter? Most of my dry hopped beers need a week for the hop bite to fade

 

[Spivey24]

Just give it a couple more days and a couple more pours. If those hops were a little old, the first few pours might just have some hop debris. Can’t judge it yet.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am starting to wonder if it’s just floating hop debris. Just pored a second pint and there seems to be less of the drying astringency.

I suspect that is the case. I often get a harsh astringent bitterness early from dry hopped beers, especially heavily dry hopped ones.

The one thing I tell myself with every batch: Don't judge the beer until at least 2 weeks in the keg.
The one thing I do with every batch: I start to judge it after 2 days in the keg!