Dry Astringency: Pale Ales and IPAs

[kavan]

Hey,

Hoping you fine folks might be able to help me out a bit. I've recently come across a harsh dry finish at the end of my IPAs and Pale Ales. I haven't changed much, other than experimenting with dry yeast. Wondering if I might be running into a water chemistry issue, but I'm really at a loss. Kind of tough to describe but these last few beers have be devoid of all sweetness and finish with a dryness that clings. The flavor also just evaporates on the finish. I should also note that the beer is not bitter. I'll leave the recipe and water profiles down below.

Thanks in advance
K

IPA: 4 gallons

GRAINS
4lb - 2 Row US
2.25lb - Golden Promise
1.75lb - White Wheat
.5lb Carapils
.5lb Crystal 20
2.5oz Acidulated Malt

HOPS
.4oz - Columbus (15.4%) 60 MIN
.2oz - Apollo (17.7%) 20 MIN
.75oz Apollo WP 140F 20 MIN
1.4oz Citra WP 140F 20 MIN
2.5oz Citra DH
1.5oz Apollo DH

MINERALS
2g Gypsum - In Kettle
.5g Calcium Cholride - In Kettle
.2g Epsom Salt - In Kettle

YEAST
8g - Nottingham

Fermented: @ 65F 7 Days
@ 70 5 Days
Kegged
SG: 1.062
FG: 1.014

Water Report:
Ca - 5.7
Mg - 1
Na - 38.8
HCO3 - 45.6
CO3 - .3
SO4 - 6.4
Cl - 40
CaCO3 - 38
Ph 8

 

[jalc6927]

Maybe try next batch without all the water additions, just use distilled water and see what happens

 

[kylevester]

I can’t plug in to Brun Water at the moment, but my guess looking at that is your mash pH may be a little high and your sparge pH is definitely high if you’re not adding any acid. Even with distilled water, I add acid to every batch except those with roasted malts.

High pH and temperature can promote tannin extraction. Most likely this is occurring during sparging.

At a minimum, add a little acid to knock down your sparge water pH to 6.

 

[couchsending]

That harshness that lingers at the end but is not bitterness is in my experience always water related. Most likely if you’re not treating your Sparge water the HC03 is driving up the PH as you go and you’re getting tannin extraction. You could either treat your Sparge with acid (I would go lower than 6 for hoppy beers, 5.5ish) or put those kettle minerals in the Sparge water. You could also try sparging less by adding more water to mash or using more grain and topping up with water at the end to get full volume.

 

[user 70770]

Next time, try adding a tsp of Calcium Chloride per 5 gallons of brew water you use and remove the gypsum. Gypsum can enhance bitterness which is maybe what you're running into. I second adding a little acid to your sparge water. 1ml of Lactic acid for 5gal should knock it down to about 6. Your water has a lot of similarity with mine.

 

[couchsending]

The amount of gypsum he’s using isn’t going to have a dramatic affect on what he’s feeling.

@kavan do you have a PH meter? Do you have Bru’n water?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

My water is good for brewing so I don't know about water chemistry but I do know the one and only time I tried to get fancy with my water and added salts was the worst beer I ever made. Have you tried using straight tap water with a Campden tablet?

Its 100% NOT from the dry yeast

How long are you letting your beer condition. Could just be a young beer. I'm drinking a pale ale/IPA now that had an odd unenjoyable taste like your describing at the start. I left it alone/forgot about it for over 3 months and it turned into one of my best beers.

On a side note 3 months is considered to long for an IPA these days and hop flavor should have faded but hasn't...have to revisit that thinking

 

[sgwink]

Is the beer ever drinkable? I keg and I noticed that the longer the beer is on the gas the more bitter and astringent it gets. I found out that I was over carbonating the beer, which causes a carbonic acid bitterness/bite. If so, try lowering the pressure in the keg.

 

[helibrewer]

Are you doing BIAB? You should be splitting your salt additions between the mash and sparge (proportionately) and adjust your mash pH to 5.4ish, not adding them to the kettle. Salt additions in the kettle aren't doing anything for you, unless of course you are doing BIAB.

 

[jdonley]

I BIAB, had the same issue and it drove me crazy. After a bunch of research I decided to figure out a way to fly sparge my wort. I removed the bag after my mash was complete and dumped (except maybe a liter or so) the wort into an old Ale Pale that had a spigot. What I didn't dump into the Ale Pale was full of husk/sediment. So I cleaned out my kettle and rigged up a crude way to fly sparge from the Ale Pale through my grain bag and into my kettle. And wouldn't you know when the Ale Pale was almost empty I looked in and saw the same husk/sediment swirling around near the bottom of it, but no worries it was getting filtered through the grain bed. All that stuff was just getting boiled in my wort and causing the astringent flavors.