Direct pitch yeast for 5 gallon Pliny the Elder clone

[foscojo]

As this is a 5 gallon DIPA with a full pound of corn sugar addition in the boil, it seems like it will need as strong yeast pitch to convert it. I am not set up to do a starter or aeration/oxygenation. Best I can do is shake the glass carboy as best as I can and direct pitch.

So, to ensure I get a solid fermentation, my plan is to direct pitch 2 packs of the White Labs WLP001 California Ale yeast.

Is that a good idea or is it unnecessary?

 

[Pappers_]

Definitely necessary, but even double pitching might not be enough. The More Beer link doesn't say what the Original Gravity of your wort is expected to be, which, along with the volume (5 gallons, for example), is the critical thing to know when deciding how much yeast to pitch. The range of OG for the Double IPA style is 1.065 to 1.085, so lets assume the middle - 1.075

I plugged that original gravity and a five gallon batch size into the yeast tool on Beersmith and set the production date for the liquid yeast as June 1st. It calculated that you want more than 250 billion cells of yeast and would need four packets of liquid yeast to get there.

Now that is best practice, and two packets is better than one, and three would be better yet, etc. The risk you run with under pitching yeast is the yeast undergoing an extended period of reproduction, being stressed and releasing more off-flavor compounds. You also run the risk of the yeast just petering out and not getting your beer dry enough.

Welcome to HBT, too!

 

[foscojo]

Definitely necessary, but even double pitching might not be enough. The More Beer link doesn't say what the Original Gravity of your wort is expected to be, which, along with the volume (5 gallons, for example), is the critical thing to know when deciding how much yeast to pitch. The range of OG for the Double IPA style is 1.065 to 1.085, so lets assume the middle - 1.075

I plugged that original gravity and a five gallon batch size into the yeast tool on Beersmith and set the production date for the liquid yeast as June 1st. It calculated that you want more than 250 billion cells of yeast and would need four packets of liquid yeast to get there.

Now that is best practice, and two packets is better than one, and three would be better yet, etc. The risk you run with under pitching yeast is the yeast undergoing an extended period of reproduction, being stressed and releasing more off-flavor compounds. You also run the risk of the yeast just petering out and not getting your beer dry enough.

Welcome to HBT, too!

Thanks. The MoreBeer kit says estimated OG should be 1.070-76.

I just checked and I do have 2-3 packets of Fermentis Safale S-04 yeast. It has been in my freezer for about 2 years (packet date 01/2018). I could wake up a couple of those and pitch with White Labs. And maybe save the 3rd packet in case the fermentation gets stuck.

I also have some yeast nutrient.

Or if you could offer a better strategy, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Pappers_]

Dry yeast has way more cells per packet than liquid yeast, which is one of the reasons so many brewers use dry yeast - you can pitch sufficient amounts without making starters or breaking the bank.

That being said, I've never frozen a dry yeast packet or used one that is two years old, so can't really comment on that. But in general, pitching dry yeast like S-04 into a big beer like this makes sense, if you're not going to make a starter.

 

[foscojo]

Dry yeast has way more cells per packet than liquid yeast, which is one of the reasons so many brewers use dry yeast - you can pitch sufficient amounts without making starters or breaking the bank.

That being said, I've never frozen a dry yeast packet or used one that is two years old, so can't really comment on that. But in general, pitching dry yeast like S-04 into a big beer like this makes sense, if you're not going to make a starter.

I read that dry brewer's yeast can be frozen. I've always kept bread yeast in the freezer no problem. Granted 2 years is pretty excessive. I'd imagine viability has suffered.

So which is the bigger consequence, underpitching or overpitching in a big beer like this one?

 

[jrgtr42]

UNderpitching is probably the bigger problem - though even that may not be too noticeable.
Making a starter doesn't have to be difficult - I boil up a cup of DME with a quart of water, let it go for about 15 minutes. Add in some yeast nutrient at the end, then cool. I make mine in old growlers. I'll pout the wort in there, get all the trub, then pitch the yeast. Swirl around for a minute then cap with airlock. I swirl fairly frequently early on, then let it go. I try to make starters a few days before brew day, put in the fridge the night before, then take out when I start brewing. By the time I'm ready, it's up to temp, decant off most of the liquid, then swirl and dump everything left in. Idon't bother measuring exact amounts, but I rarely have issues with the beer taking off.

 

[foscojo]

UNderpitching is probably the bigger problem - though even that may not be too noticeable.
Making a starter doesn't have to be difficult - I boil up a cup of DME with a quart of water, let it go for about 15 minutes. Add in some yeast nutrient at the end, then cool. I make mine in old growlers. I'll pout the wort in there, get all the trub, then pitch the yeast. Swirl around for a minute then cap with airlock. I swirl fairly frequently early on, then let it go. I try to make starters a few days before brew day, put in the fridge the night before, then take out when I start brewing. By the time I'm ready, it's up to temp, decant off most of the liquid, then swirl and dump everything left in. Idon't bother measuring exact amounts, but I rarely have issues with the beer taking off.

Thanks. Unfortunately, I have no DME on hand. The only ingredients I'll have is what comes in the kit. Budget is zero at this point so I'll have to start gathering things for future brews. This times I'll have to pitch direct.

That being the case, I'll go ahead and proof one or two packs of the dry yeast to supplement the liquid to ensure I hit the target and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[jrgtr42]

Thanks. Unfortunately, I have no DME on hand. The only ingredients I'll have is what comes in the kit. Budget is zero at this point so I'll have to start gathering things for future brews. This times I'll have to pitch direct.

That being the case, I'll go ahead and proof one or two packs of the dry yeast to supplement the liquid to ensure I hit the target and keep my fingers crossed.

Sounds like a plan - in this case one pack of the dry, rehydrated, along with the two liquid should be about right.
Next time you put in an order, add in an extra pound of DME - it's always good o have on hand anyways, for starters and a boost if your beer is lower gravity than planned.

 

[foscojo]

Sounds like a plan - in this case one pack of the dry, rehydrated, along with the two liquid should be about right.
Next time you put in an order, add in an extra pound of DME - it's always good o have on hand anyways, for starters and a boost if your beer is lower gravity than planned.

Cool. The only reason that I was thinking of doing both dry packs is that they've been in my freezer for 2 years and my have taken a hit on viability.

But yes, I plan on grabbing one of the start kits with the DME, flask, etc. I'll just have to pad my budget when I submit the PO to the CFO (SWMBO).

 

[Steveruch]

I read that dry brewer's yeast can be frozen. I've always kept bread yeast in the freezer no problem. Granted 2 years is pretty excessive.

I just brewed a mild with Munton's regular (kept in the fridge) that was dated best by 11/2016. I pitched two packs in two gallons and had signs of fermentation in two hours. Went from 1.037 to 1.012 in a day and a half.

 

[JAReeves]

Since I harvest yeast from my regular-size fermentations, I normally have a good stock of yeast that is ready to be woken up and pitched; you may want to think about that for future brews. Having a pint or two of ready to go yeast in the refrigerator speeds up fermentation considerably. If you don't have growlers available, sanitized jars work well; you can find more instructions on this site. I have lots of Laura Scudder's Yeast Cultures .

I mentioned on a different thread that when I do large beers, I normally brew a similar-flavor small beer first and use the leftover yeast cake for the bigger beer. It requires some planning, as I need to keg the small beer while the big beer is mashing or boiling, but I normally have a strong fermentation within the hour.

Best of luck to you!