Crazy Double Stuck Fermentations...

[Anon22]

I have two large batches of meads (spread out in 5 carboys). I made the two batches separately, about a week apart. Each started with a yeast starter and dry yeast re-hydrated with Go-Ferm. I added DAP & Fermaid K half initially and staggered after that. The first batch was actually a staggered honey addition (going for 18%), so I added a bit more nutrient at the honey addition.

Each progressed steadily until somewhere between 5/6 and 5/11, when they both stopped. It took me a while to figure out what could have stalled them, I tried first adding yeast hulls, then degassing. pH and temperature are within appropriate boundaries. If anything, it may have dipped to a little below 50 degrees on a night or two, but usually my basement stays around 60, especially during the day, no more than 65 and stays pretty constant. I added a space heater just in case, with a temperature control set to 60 degrees.

I was worried that my notes may have added a lot more fermaid K and nutrient than I should have, because my notes aren't clear (I don't know if I was just writing down totals, figuring out a new method, or the actual amounts added).

So, I tried adding another yeast starter, and racking the mead off the sediment. I stirred again for a few days, added yeast hulls, and O2. Still nothing in almost 10 days. I added yet more yeast, this time K1-V1116 properly hydrated.

It's been over two weeks and they are both still.

The weird part is, they were both done separately, both with different honey types and amounts, both different yeasts (originally), at different times. But they both stalled at the same time and have not re-started. I stirred and added nutrient to both at the same time out of ease, but was careful to not cross-contaminate between carboys of different batches.

The only connection I have in my notes is that I added Fermaid O instead of Fermaid K. My understanding is that Fermaid O is an organic version of Fermaid K, and since I was out of fermaid K mid-way through, I switched (purchased through Midwest Brewing Supplies). In theory, this shouldn't matter - and it might very well be unrelated, but it's the only thing I could think of outside of the usual suspects. Could it be a bad nutrient? An odd contamination? What am I missing?!

Below are the records and recipes of them both...

Batch One, brewed 4/21
12 gallons (end volume), with 39 pounds total honey. Started with 10 gallons and 24.75lbs, ~1.113 OG (26.5 brix). I started with a yeast starter of Premier Cuvee, and I'll admit the yeast was old, but I had an active starter. pH was 3.86.

I have a few somewhat unreadable notes on the top that suggest I may have actually added a lot of DAP and Fermaid K to start (15g and 8g, total respectively) but not sure. The main portion of my notes say I initially added 2 tsps DAP, 1 tsp "Nutrient" and 1 tsp Fermaid K in each carboy (so double that for the total). Used a stone and O2 bottle for 20 seconds on each carboy.

4/22: Added 1/2 tsp Fermaid K, 1/2 tsp Nutrient, 1 tsp DAP to each carboy.
4/24: Brix 23, pH 3.17, added 1/2tsp Fermaid K and Nutrient to each as well as 2 tsps Potassium Carbonate in each carboy to adjust pH
4/25: another addition of 1/2 tsp Fermaid K & Nutrient to each, as well as 20 sec O2.
4/26: Brix 18.4, added remaining honey in water to reach 12 gallons. Added 1 tsp each of DAP, Fermaid K, Nutirent and stirred (drill) for 20 sec each. Adjusted Brix at 21.5
4/27: pH 3.86, Brix 20, added 1/2 tsp Fermaid K and Nutrient.
4/28: pH 3.92, Brix 18.9, added 1/4 tsp Fermaid K and Nutrient each
4/29: pH 3.85, Brix 16.
5/1: pH 4, Brix 15.5. Added 1/4 tsp Fermaid K to each Carboy
5/4: pH 3.94, Brix 14
5/6: pH 3.89, Brix 13
5/11: pH 3.98, Brix 11. Added 1/4 tsp Fermaid O to each carboy
5/15: Brix 11
5/17: Brix 11. Stirred with drill for 1 min each, added 1/4 tsp yeast hulls to each carboy
5/19: Created a ~3/4 gallong starter with 30g yeast (EC-1118 and Premier Cuvee)
5/20: Racked and added yeast starter
5/22: Added 1 tablespoon yeast hulls and stirred each carboy. Brix 11, pH 4.14
5/23: Added 1/2 tsp nutrient and stirred
5/25: Brix 11. 1 min each O2, 3/4 tsp acid blend to each, 1/2 tsp Nutrient to each, re-hydrated and active K1-V116 to each carboy (~5g each)
5/30: Brix still 11. Added 20 sec O2 and 1/2 tsp Fermaid K to each carboy

Batch Two, brewed 4/26
18 gallons, 48 pounds of honey (~2.67lbs/gallon). Used 18g of K1-V116 in a starter for 2/3rds of the batch (2 carboys) and 71B in the third. Added 16 grams each of Fermaid K and Dap total and 1 tablespoon of "nutrient" mix, as well as 4 ysp Potassium Carbonate. Again, I'm not 100% sure these are the actual additions or just notes I made about totals.

Original Brix 25, pH 4.8.

4/27: pH 3.9-4, Brix 24. Added 1/2 tsp Fermaid K, DAP and Nutrient to each carboy (three carboys). Stirred each for 30 seconds, added
4/28: pH 3.2-3.5, Brix 21-22. Added 1 tsp Potassium Carbonate to each carboy (ka-boom!), 1/2 tsp Fermaid K, DAP & Nutrient
4/29: pH 3.41, Brix 18-20, added 1/4 tsp Fermaid K, DAP & Nutrient to each carboy
5/1: pH 3.5, brix 16-17. added 1/4 tsp Fermaid K, DAP & Nutrient to each carboy
5/4: pH 3.5-3.6, Brix 12.5-13.5
5/6: pH 3.5, Brix 11.5
5/11: pH 3.55-3.7, Brix 9, added 1/4 tsp Fermaid O, DAP & Nutrient to each carboy
5/15: Brix 9
5/17: Brix 9, degassed and added 1/4 tsp yeast hulls
5/20: Racked, added yeast starter
5/22: Added 1 tablespoon yeast hulls to each and stirred. Brix 9, pH 3.64
5/23: Stirred, added 1/4 tsp acid blend, 1/2 tsp nutrient
5/25: pH 3.5-3.79, Brix 11. 1 min O2 each carboy, 1/2 tsp Nutrient each carboy, 5g re-hydrated K1-V1116 yeast to each carboy
5/30: Stirred, 20 sec O2, 1/4 tsp Fermaid K each carboy

I'm hurting here - I've tried everything, yet still nothing!

I'm hoping you wonderful people have some advice, or even just a clue as to what went wrong so I can avoid it. Are these batched ruined? They are not drinkable, and it would be a huge loss if I had to scrap them.

I know that patience is the number one rule, but this has me worried. I've made plenty of mead in the past, but it's been over a year so maybe I'm rusty. This is also a new house, new environment and new setup. This is the first time I've tried this nutrient schedule (and, again, I'm not entirely sure the totals added, given that my initial notes may just be planning/brainstorming and not the actual amount added).

HELP!

 

[Arpolis]

Well it sounds like you know your stuff and all the simple things that cause stick fermentation can be thrown out the door. Now I am not familiar with using Brix as a measurement so if possible could I ask what the gravity is for each batch?

In a situation where the ABV is high enough to keep a yeast starter from happening but your sugar content is too high for your taste there is probably two things you can do. One is make a stepped starter. For a large batch like yours I would try this:

4 cups water
1/2 cup honey
1/4 tsp yeast nutrient
20 raisins torn in half
Pitch yeast on top (for really stuck fermentations bring out the big guns Lalvin ec-1118)

Wait a couple hours for the yeast to start rolling in the starter then add 1/2 cup of must from your stuck batch. Wait about an hour and if the yeast still look good then add another 1/2 cup of must. Repeat this process till you have about 8 1/2 to 10 cups of starter. Pitch that and 1118 should finish out any must within it's ABV limit.

The second option is to make another smaller batch of mead and let it ferment dry. Then blend it with the sweeter meads to bring down the gravity.

 

[Anon22]

Yea, my first re-pitch I made a starter of K1-V1116 and added some of the must before pitching, but I'll admit I didn't wait an hour, just about 20 minutes. It was on a stir plate and still bubbling after 20-30 mins.

The second time I re-pitched with EC-1118, this time following More Beer's re-hydration and pitching instructions to the letter (no starter, but allowed time to get active hydration, then mixed with 1/2 the volume of the starter from each carboy - 5 separate containers, just in case - and waited 20-30mins before pitching).

I'll have to do two separate starters, using must from each batch and re-pitch. But that will amount to my third re-pitch. Should I still add nutrient and O2 at this point? I'm worried I may have already added too much of both.

It's actually be about three weeks now without any movement in gravity.

Brix is refractometer speech for sugar content. The first batch started at 26.5 Brix, which is 1.113 gravity, and is stalled at 11 brix, which is 1.044 gravity. That one had a staggered honey addition, so while the gravity never got above 1.113, it has the same amount of honey as if it started at ~1.130 gravity. I think it has around 11-13% abv right now, and 44 more points to go to zero... and I'd be happy with getting to 1.010 at least.

There is a good converter online here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brix-converter/

The other started at ~1.106 and is stalled at 1.036.

At this point I'm not entirely convinced that more yeast will do the trick, and I'm hesitant to keep adding more nutrient/yeast if it's a lost cause. But, I hear you, what else could it be, right?!

Also, dumping your yeast on a batch to re-start is fine, but you gain nothing by just leaving it on the top of the must, like you would in a fresh batch - it's actually better to stir in the yeast and get everything back into suspension and dispersed. That's where (usually) adding O2 via a stone is better. Because the top of your must will be covered with CO2 typically by that point. At least, so says a few of the articles I have read over the last week while trying to problem solve this.

 

[Arpolis]

Ty for the crash course in Brix. Yea the above stepped method of a starter is an all day event usually. Taking 10 - 12 hours to complete. It should slowly acclimate your yeast to the harsh environment. I think your nutrient is fine. I would not add more.

But yes I am as confused as you are at this point. If the above starter does not work then I would looking into blending a smaller dry batch of mead into these to lower the gravity. Best of luck to you.

 

[Anon22]

Okay, well, it is always the one thing you don't consider. I feel like a complete idiot....

This was also the first time I used Brix - I have been a solid hydrometer guy up until then. But I recently swapped out my beer brewing equipment for more mead-oriented equipment and got myself a refractometer - thinking, "Hey, I only need a few drops, great!" that it would reduce sampling and potential spoilage, etc, etc.

Little did I know that Brix has to be adjusted in the presence of alcohol... What?! Really?!

So, as it turns out, these are two very dry meads, with an ample amount of extra yeast to settle out. Lesson learned. :smack:

 

[deadfall]

I've been reading up on making my first mead and your post almost had me say forget that. Glad to hear it work out.

 

[Arpolis]

Hahahaha I guess that is why I never got a refractometer. Glad to hear it is working out as well. Happy brewing.

 

[Anon22]

Deadfall - yea, by all means don't be dissuaded from making mead! It's usually a very easy and straight-forward process that results in some amazing product. In fact, this batch was right-on and totally alright - I just didn't know how to use my refractometer correctly!

Arpolis - thanks for the help! Lesson learned!

Oh, and for future reference, here are a couple of links to information on the Brix adjustment:

http://seanterrill.com/2011/04/07/refractometer-fg-results/
http://morewinemaking.com/images/file.php?file_id=1434

 

[Shooter]

Yep, definitely need to convert. I was reading the first posts and kept asking myself, is he using a refractometer, but you answered the question yourself. Sounds like these are good to go.

 

[deadfall]

I still looking forward to my first mead. I'm wait for a carboy to free up. I'm sure I'll be posting when I get closer to pitching.

 

[WVMJ]

The other part is that you didnt mention using the refractometer in your original post which was very detailed, except for this one important one. I am impressed with your notetaking, if your winelog records are this good to get this much detail out I think you are on a very good habit, I wish mine records were this good. You should not be overly concerned about taking out a sample to use for your hydrometer, just clean out your cylinder and rinse with some KMeta concentrate, we usually just make a gallon and put it in a glass jug, pour some in the cylinder, drop in the hydrometer and let it get clean, dump it all out, shake it good, add some wine using a thief or plastic cup, measure it and dump it right back into the main batch. Less math then the refractometer WVMJ

Okay, well, it is always the one thing you don't consider. I feel like a complete idiot....

This was also the first time I used Brix - I have been a solid hydrometer guy up until then. But I recently swapped out my beer brewing equipment for more mead-oriented equipment and got myself a refractometer - thinking, "Hey, I only need a few drops, great!" that it would reduce sampling and potential spoilage, etc, etc.

Little did I know that Brix has to be adjusted in the presence of alcohol... What?! Really?!

So, as it turns out, these are two very dry meads, with an ample amount of extra yeast to settle out. Lesson learned. :smack:

 

[Anon22]

Yea, if I had known the amount of math necessary I might not have done the refractometer, but I am ultimately happy with it - I certainly learned a lot in the lost month on my hunt to fix a non-existant issue!

I actually think my note-taking is sub-par, so thanks! It is a habit that I developed over years of brewing, making something awesome and trying to repeat it then getting different results. Note taking makes all the difference!