Campden tablets won't dissolve.

[Kyzaboy89]

Recently refilled my campden tablets through a new supplier and have found twice now they aren't dissolving. In the past I have crushed them into powder, sprinkled the powder across the top of fruit/water while thawing to sterilize for a day before primary fermentation. Or, crushed and sprinkled in the bottom of a carboy before transferring primary to secondary for aging. I have done both in the past few days and neither of which has dissolved, I know some say to dissolve in water then add, but I'm curious why I have never had to do this in the past and now the only difference which I believe may be the cause is a new brand of campden.

Thoughts?

 

[MaxStout]

Maybe the new ones are cut with a different filler?

Another option is to buy a jar of sodium or potassium metabisulfite and weigh the dose on a gram scale.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

I have considered that, but why would you use a filler when it won't dissolve when it's meant for use by dissolving? I understand cheaper production and cutting corners for consumerism and all that but, if you release a product that doesn't perform well you risk brand recognition/reputation.

 

[MaxStout]

I have considered that, but why would you use a filler when it won't dissolve when it's meant for use by dissolving? I understand cheaper production and cutting corners for consumerism and all that but, if you release a product that doesn't perform well you risk brand recognition/reputation.

Without knowing what else is in those tabs, one can only guess. But yeah, I agree. It seems counterproductive to make a product that's intended to be dissolved in water, less soluble. Perhaps it's a quality control issue. So many of those brew shop chemicals are purchased bulk and re-packaged, it's hard to track the source.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Trying to get some from my old supplier so I can compare, cheap enough to do a side by side. Worse case they are the same and I have to start dissolving before adding.

 

[Dan O]

Trying to get some from my old supplier so I can compare, cheap enough to do a side by side. Worse case they are the same and I have to start dissolving before adding.

Is it possible to get in touch with the manufacturer to ask if they changed the formula?

 

[Kyzaboy89]

It's possible, I'll see what I can't find down the rabbit hole. In an update though, has anyone ever seen a pellicle form on top of campden in a wine/mead/beer before? Both the Blue/Black berry in secondary and a test batch have formed a pellicle. Both have had the new campden tablets crushed and added but still haven't dissolved.

 

[ncbrewer]

Recently refilled my campden tablets through a new supplier and have found twice now they aren't dissolving. In the past I have crushed them into powder, sprinkled the powder across the top of fruit/water while thawing to sterilize for a day before primary fermentation. Or, crushed and sprinkled in the bottom of a carboy before transferring primary to secondary for aging. I have done both in the past few days and neither of which has dissolved, I know some say to dissolve in water then add, but I'm curious why I have never had to do this in the past and now the only difference which I believe may be the cause is a new brand of campden.

Thoughts?

The last two bottles of campden I bought had a similar problem. I dissolve it in water, and then pour a measured amount into the vessels. I checked with the supplier, but they didn't have any idea why it was happening. I think most people use it in such a way that they don't notice the small undissolved particles. I'm using it to get rid of chlorine - it works fine. I'm guessing it's the filler used to keep it in tablet form.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

I've always used it to sterilize/kill any wild yeast on fruit and as an anti oxidation agent when bulk aging long term. Going to monitor what I've already delt with but going to wait for a few things to get here so I can cross reference.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I bought a pill crushed for Campden tablets. Too easy to not buy and use.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Did some experimenting, crushed to powder and attempted to dissolve in hot faucet water ≈120°
Then in 200° and finally a rolling boil... Boiled water got closest, but there was still a visible film on the surface and sides that is identical to oxygen cleaner, the kind you use to clean kettles and carboys. No matter what I try it won't dilute, dissolve or breakdown, it just swirls around and floats no matter how fine it gets. Not going to be using it until I find out what or why, a bad batch is one thing but still waiting on answers. Here's an example in my secondary currently.

 

[Beermeister32]

Sounds like somebody, somewhere in the supply chain substituted a different item thinking it was the same.

A lot of items these past COVID years are being substituted by buyers who cannot get their regular items. A lot of off-brand items have also made their ways to the stores. A lot of off-spec materials are being used in manufacturing to get materials out the door.

Hard to tell what those tablets were originally used for. Possibly they have a waxy binder of some type not easily soluble in water.

 

[bruce_the_loon]

The Campden tablets I've bought from the online stores in South Africa have always behaved like this, residual powder left undissolved in the water. Never thought it should be otherwise. If you crush it finely, the active should dissolve out of the matrix of the filler and all shall be good.

No idea the brand name, comes in a ziplock with the store label stuck on and written in Sharpie.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Sounds like if it continues that one would need to filter it somehow, possibly dissolve what will in a cup of hot water then poor it through a filter of some kind to remove the floating particulate. If it is a wax like substance that could form a sealing layer much like a crousen layer (check spelling) that could be what I'm seeing happen.

 

[Dan O]

Sounds like if it continues that one would need to filter it somehow, possibly dissolve what will in a cup of hot water then poor it through a filter of some kind to remove the floating particulate. If it is a wax like substance that could form a sealing layer much like a crousen layer (check spelling) that could be what I'm seeing happen.

Yikes! Never even thought about it sealing it off from being able to outgas.

 

[MaxStout]

You can keep wondering what else is in your campden (and if it even contains meta at all).
Or get some of this.

 

[DaveS]

The Campden tablets I've bought from the online stores in South Africa have always behaved like this, residual powder left undissolved in the water. Never thought it should be otherwise. If you crush it finely, the active should dissolve out of the matrix of the filler and all shall be good.

No idea the brand name, comes in a ziplock with the store label stuck on and written in Sharpie.

I found exactly the same thing.
Usually a small white mound on the bottom of the boiler while cleaning up after a brewday
Also in PE

 

[IslandLizard]

You can keep wondering what else is in your campden (and if it even contains meta at all).
Or get some of this.

That! ^
Just pure K-meta powder without fillers. Dissolves quickly.

A few years ago I bought a whole pound in a bag for $3-4 at my LHBS. Still going.

 

[MaxStout]

That! ^
Just pure K-meta powder without fillers. Dissolves quickly.

A few years ago I bought a whole pound in a bag for $3-4 at my LHBS. Still going.

That'll last you forever.

A good gram scale is a must for weighing meta.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

I purchased a good gram scale last year and have slowly altered my process while using it. More of a mainstay now and the pure k-meta would be at home with everything else on the shelf. Will most likely check the lhbs tomorrow as it's 2 hours away and will be there for some shopping. Starting to rack up quite the shopping list again.

 

[IslandLizard]

Will most likely check the lhbs tomorrow as it's 2 hours away and will be there for some shopping.

Wow, 2 hours! We're so spoiled here.
Better make sure they have everything you need and then some. Make your trip worthwhile, see if there's anything else you need from that area.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Northern plains here, measure distance by how long it takes to get somewhere haha, anything within an hour is reasonable, e.g. taco bell is 54 minutes away and that's normal. If you can get to the "local" homebrew store, they are very good at stocking a little bit of everything and I've never had an issue with their merchandise selection. Online is more convenient but again, you can't really check everything before purchase.

 

[IslandLizard]

e.g. taco bell is 54 minutes away

But there's nothing at Taco Bell that's worth the drive or that you can't make better at home.
Now the brew store visit, that's a whole different exigence, of course.

 

[yowzers]

Just crush it with a spoon before you put it in

 

[Bilsch]

The problem is China and an untraceable supply chain. They have no compunction about substituting anything of any quality as long as the sale is made. For important things like meta, avoid Amazon and spend a couple dollars extra to buy from reputable lab chem suppliers such as Fischer, Anachemia, Sigma Aldrich, Alfa aesar, GFS, Spectrum, Ricca, Noah, JT Baker and VWR.

Remember you are putting these unknown substances in your beer and your body so you must be vigilant.

 

[Bilsch]

You are probably thinking, hey those are lab chemicals not food grade, but read on.


The following list describes the seven most common grades for chemicals and reagents, from highest to lowest grade/purity:

1. ACS grade meets or exceeds purity standards set by the American Chemical Society (ACS). This grade is acceptable for food, drug, or medicinal use and can be used for ACS applications or for general procedures that require stringent quality specifications and a purity of ≥95%.
   
   
2. Reagent grade is generally equal to ACS grade (≥95%) and is acceptable for food, drug, or medicinal use and is suitable for use in many laboratory and analytical applications.
   
   
3. USP grade meets or exceeds requirements of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). This grade is acceptable for food, drug, or medicinal use. It is also used for most laboratory purposes, but the USP being followed should always be reviewed prior to beginning to ensure the grade is appropriate for that methodology.
   
   
4. NF grade meets or exceeds requirements of the National Formulary (NF). The USP and the NF (USP– NF) jointly publish a book of public pharmacopeial standards for chemical and biological drug substances, dosage forms, compounded preparations, excipients, medical devices, and dietary supplements. The listings here should be reviewed to determine which would be considered equivalent grades.
   
   
5. Laboratory grade is the most popular grade for use in educational applications, but its exact levels of impurities are unknown. While excellent for teaching and training, it is not pure enough to be offered for food, drug, or medicinal use of any kind.
   
   
6. Purified grade, also called pure or practical grade, meets no official standard; it is not pure enough to be offered for food, drug, or medicinal use of any kind.
   
   
7. Technical grade is used for commercial and industrial purposes; however, like many others, it is not pure enough to be offered for food, drug, or medicinal use of any kind.

ACS, Reagent, and USP-NF grades are typically equivalent and interchangeable but, even so, appropriateness should always be confirmed before application. This can be done by reviewing the applicable regulatory requirements.

 

[bwible]

Wow, 2 hours! We're so spoiled here.
Better make sure they have everything you need and then some. Make your trip worthwhile, see if there's anything else you need from that area.

There’s one hb store right about an hour’s drive from me, but its a very small store and he doesn’t keep much inventory outside of the very basic stuff like grains, hops, and yeast.

There is a much bigger and better stocked store that is just about 2 hours away. I make the trip once or twice a year and stock up on any sacks of grain and other large items I need. The rest of the time I get my stuff by mail order.

We used to have more stores but it’s such a niche hobby and online competition is fierce with free shipping from the big stores. Everybody eats pizza. Thats why there’s a pizza shop on every corner. Comparatively, very few people homebrew. Retail is a numbers game. All the small stores here closed up because they weren’t making any money and they’ve all moved on to bigger and better things. I owned a hb store from 2000 til I ran out of money in 2004. Not much has changed since then.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Just an update, I've been keeping an eye on it for a week now and the particulates that won't dissolve are circulating with what I believe to be CO2. Curious findings and going to see what happens in the long run. Got some of my old supplier tablets today just to see what they do, planning to switch to pure powder products from licensed suppliers bit my curiosity can spare the 3 dollars.

Hard to see but small and large particles are circulating.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

As an update on this one, the non-dissolving particles stopped recirculating about a month ago, it was much like yeast flowing up and down. Some settled at the top in a thin film with a crusty ring and alot of grainy clumps settled at the bottom. Dropping clear a month ago and seeing no further activity I decided to rack it. Smells wonderful, very fruit forward and strong, brilliant clarity but a few of the floaty Camden bits snuck through and are doing their thing circulating. Next racking I plan to screen the bits out and back sweeten then finish aging. No noticable issues with the campden bits other than floaters and the odd layer that forms on the surface.

First two are the neck,
and the bits at the bottom.

 

[PberBob]

Tabletting aids are used for a bunch of things, such as:
- Help hold tablets together (binders)
- keep them from sticking together
- minimize humidity absorption
- in pharma, controlling dissolution rate

It doesn’t take much, a couple of percent. Silica (finer than sand), and cellulose are two common insoluble ones. Inert, but annoying..

 

[Kyzaboy89]

I'm well aware, originally the issue or concern was I restocked my campden and the newer tablets caused a film on the surface as well as not dissolving. Haven't been able to discover from the supplier any details as I believe they resources their supplier from a cheaper source. I've done side by side comparisons and have tossed the "bad" campden. Might be nothing wrong with them but I don't like what they are doing, not tossing the mead as I want to let it go all the way to bottling to see if anything does happen down the road.