Black IPA vs CascadIan Dark Ale

[theheadonthedoor]

Now I know those terms are often regarded as being able to be used interchangeably, but I've noticed an.. um... pattern, if you will.

Whenever I've had a beer that was labeled CDA, it's been roastier, maltier, and less ipa-esque.

And all the black IPAs have been hoppier, slicker, and drier. And honestly, usually better.

Breweries who are champs like Stone, Lagunitas, Fort George, and Firestone Walker have black IPAs. Lots of great breweries have CDAs like Pelican, pFriem, Oakshire, and more, but all of these examples aren't as hoppy as the former.

I know that the style should retain a little roast character, but many CDAs just seem to push that malty flavors a little too forward. And in many cases, the breweries making CDAs instead of black IPAs don't always have the best ipas in the first place...

I almost feel like a brewery tries to make a black IPA, and then it doesn't come out hoppy enough, so they call it a "Cascadian Dark Ale".

Just some thoughts. What do you think?

Also, Nighttime Ale by Lagunitas is easily my favorite of the style. What's yours?

💛🍻

 

[bucketnative]

I think they make Cascadian Dark Ales on purpose. When I open one of those, I expect it to be maltier with piney, resiny hops. I don't necessarily think they need to have a roasted quality to them. The flavors that they select are intentional, and to me, reflect a very specific region.

I think you are spot on with your description of the Black IPA. In my opinion, the good ones are definitely drier than what I would expect from the CDA, and they have a little bit of roasted character.

The CDA likely evolved out of the BIPA, perhaps as marketing tool for regional breweries in Cascadia, but as is the case in a lot of industries, they have taken on a character of their own. Look at the Dog Shows nowadays... (We were watching one on Thursday), there's way more breeds than there were 20 years ago. There's plenty of room for new labels.

As far as CDA, I love Hopworks Secession Ale.

As for Black IPA, I think that the best I have had is Revival's Chinook vs. Sorachi Ace (it's a double, though).

 

[bobeer]

The BJCP puts them in the same category and leaves the Statistics of the style pretty open. So either a CDA or BIPA could both fit into the style- even know they're the same beer. The folks in the Pacific Northwest def called this beer a CDA, and still do, but I think outside of that region it's known as a Black IPA.

Taken from the 2015 BJCP... Specialty IPA: Black IPA
Overall Impression:
A beer with the dryness, hop-forward balance, and flavor characteristics of an American IPA, only
darker in color – but without strongly roasted or burnt flavors.
The flavor of darker malts is gentle and supportive, not a major
flavor component. Drinkability is a key characteristic.

It goes on to say...
Most examples are standard strength. Strong
examples can sometimes seem like big, hoppy porters if made
too extreme, which hurts their drinkability. The hops and malt
can combine to produce interesting interactions.

This style is sometimes known as Cascadian Dark Ale (CDA),
mainly in the Pacific Northwest.

Characteristic Ingredients:
Debittered roast malts for
color and some flavor without harshness and burnt qualities;
American or New World hop varieties that don’t clash with
roasted malts. Hop characteristics cited are typical of these
type of hops; others characteristics are possible, particularly if
derived from newer varietals.

Style Comparison:
Balance and overall impression of an American or Double IPA with restrained roast similar to the
type found in Schwarzbiers. Not as roasty-burnt as American
stouts and porters, and with less body and increased
smoothness and drinkability.
Vital Statistics:
OG: 1.050 – 1.085
IBUs: 50 – 90
FG:1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 25 – 40
ABV: 5.5 – 9.0%

 

[filthyastronaut]

Style semantics give me headache, but a maltier, less hoppy but still hoppy Black IPA sounds like an American Stout to me.

 

[Bosh]

Style semantics give me headache, but a maltier, less hoppy but still hoppy Black IPA sounds like an American Stout to me.

Except much much less roast flavor.

 

[foam_top]

The CDA likely evolved out of the BIPA, perhaps as marketing tool for regional breweries in Cascadia, but as is the case in a lot of industries, they have taken on a character of their own. Look at the Dog Shows nowadays... (We were watching one on Thursday), there's way more breeds than there were 20 years ago. There's plenty of room for new labels.

As far as CDA, I love Hopworks Secession Ale.

As for Black IPA, I think that the best I have had is Revival's Chinook vs. Sorachi Ace (it's a double, though).

I definitely agree with your dog breed metaphor. I watched a mini documentary and, supposedly, according to the Cascadia region, they claim to be the inventors of the CDA and "they" were insulted by the name "Black IPA". But that's just one side of the story and even if it's true the BIPA is just an evolution of the style. Just like many things, there are semantics. Also, brewers are always taking a style and making it hoppier!

Unfortunately, I don't remember the documentary but if anyone else remembers and wants to leave a reference I'd like to see it again too.

 

[Homercidal]

CDA is the term used by the people in the Cascadian region, where they grow mucho hoppo. And by whoever else likes the term, or how hates that "Black India Pale Ale" is contradictory of itself.

A lot of people prefer Black IPA because it's short and describes itself easily as long as you understand that IPA stands for a very hoppy, bitter beer, not necessarily a pale beer.

I mean, it's not like we're talking about a Black Witbier or something...

 

[bobeer]

Style semantics give me headache./QUOTE]

Ha, for sure! The BJCP has a way of making the confused even more confused.

 

[filthyastronaut]

Except much much less roast flavor.

I suppose I'd have to try a beer that considers itself a Cascadian Dark Ale to decide.

 

[kh54s10]

BJCP may have them in the same category but to me they are far different. A black IPA is an IPA and a CDA is an APA that just happens to be dark. The IPA bitter and very hoppy, the CDA less bitter and a lot less hoppy.

I have never paid much attention to what commercial brewers call theirs.

 

[duelerx]

The british were first!, we should call them Black Pale Ale or India Porter:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.mx/2010/03/black-ipa.html

 

[slym2none]

Style semantics give me headache./QUOTE]

Ha, for sure! The BJCP has a way of making the confused even more confused.

*needless complication intensifies*