BIAB NEIPA - Citra/Denali/El Dorado

[cooper]

So I'm thinking of brewing this one. It's based on Braufessor's legendary NE Sytle IPA thread.

I've brewed his recipe before and it was awesome, but I'm thinking of increasing the Wheat Malt a bit and adding rice hulls to help with the re-circulation in the hope of avoiding any cavity issues in the bottom of the kettle since I'll be using around 36% wheat malt and flaked adjuncts. I'll also be using a step mash to help as well.

Using 100% RO water and adjusting it with 2ml acid and 2 tsp CaCL and 1 tsp CaSO4 to get the pH to come in around 5.4ish.

I'll be chilling it down to ~160F before starting the whirlpool addition, as Braufessor recommends, as well as only adding one whirlpool and one dry hop addition (day 3 after most of the blow off is over).

What do you guys think? Anyone ever give this hop combo a shot? How'd you like it?

Recipe: NEIPA - Citra/Denali/El Dorado
Brewer: Cooper
Style: Specialty IPA
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.66 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.51 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 4.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 104.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.9 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 6.7 %
5 lbs Pilsen Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.0 SRM) Grain 2 33.3 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcet) Grain 3 23.3 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 4 23.3 %
1 lbs Barley, Flaked (Briess) (1.7 SRM) Grain 5 6.7 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6 6.7 %
0.18 oz Magnum [12.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 6.9 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [13.80 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 8 48.2 IBUs
2.00 oz Denali [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 9 32.6 IBUs
1.00 oz El Dorado [14.10 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 3 Hop 10 16.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg London Fog (White Labs #WLP066) Yeast 11 -
3.00 oz Citra [13.80 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Denali [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz El Dorado [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: 07 BIAB, Med Body Step Mash (122F, 148F, 154F, 168F)
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Protein rest Add 8.76 gal of water at 125.9 F 122.0 F 30 min
Saccharification Add 0.00 gal of water and heat to 148.0 F 148.0 F 30 min
Sacc Rest Add -0.00 gal of water and heat to 154.0 F 154.0 F 30 min
Mash Out Add -0.00 gal of water at 168.0 F 168.0 F 10 min

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I'm pretty much a single infusion guy, so I can't speak to the step mash, everything else looks intriguing. If you're anywhere near Iowa, I'd happily render an opinion!

 

[cooper]

Yeah I usually just do with a 60 minute mash at 154 but thought I’d give this a try due to all the protein. Not sure it’ll make a difference or not but it can’t hurt right? I could also forego the recirculation and wrap a sleeping bag around it so I don’t have to worry about clogging anything up, so I’m thinking on that too.

 

[IslandLizard]

Looks great! Can almost taste it.
If you really want to do a step mash, limit the protein rest to 10-15 minutes, or you may start losing foam and head forming properties.

I add the dry hops when it has 30% attenuated, usually within 24-36 hours after pitching. No later than at 50% down.

 

[hopjuice_71]

Awesome choice of hops. Love them all, particularly Denali. My only worry would be that the El Dorado in that quantity will get overpowered by the large amounts of Citra and Denali. However, it will still be delicious!

 

[IslandLizard]

Awesome choice of hops. Love them all, particularly Denali. My only worry would be that the El Dorado in that quantity will get overpowered by the large amounts of Citra and Denali. However, it will still be delicious!

Now you said it, I just realized he's using 3:2:1, throughout. That Citra will overpower.

I'd use equal quantities (1:1:1) for a start. Like 2 oz of each, giving the same hop load.
Or 2:3:2 or even 1:2:1, emphasizing Denali, while still sticking to 6 oz combined per addition.

 

[cooper]

Now you said it, I just realized he's using 3:2:1, throughout. That Citra will overpower.

I'd use equal quantities (1:1:1) for a start. Like 2 oz of each, giving the same hop load.
Or 2:3:2 or even 1:2:1, emphasizing Denali, while still sticking to 6 oz combined per addition.

That was my worry too about the smaller portion El Dorado, that it would get lost in all the Citra. I think I'll change it to the 2:3:2 (Citra/Denali/El Dorado) like you suggested and see how that goes. I've never used Denali or El Dorado but I've read the El Dorado can get a bit too candy-like in larger quantities. Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

El Dorado can get a big cloying on its own. I like to pair it with something like galaxy or columbus.

 

[cooper]

Just brewed this up on Sunday.

I went with a mash temp of 156F and changed the hops to 3oz Denali, 2oz Citra, and 2oz El Dorado for a 10 min whirlpool at 160F plus what ever additional time it took to get down to pitching temps.

Brew day went really well, got an OG of 1.058 for 6 gallons into the fermenter and I was shooting for 1.060. Not sure if it's my crush or what, my gap is set to .039 and I may have needed to close it down more, maybe around .032, while milling the wheat as I noticed more than a few that weren't getting cracked. Not the end of the world though and I'll have something to change for the next time I brew it!

I'll post some pics when I get it into the glass.

 

[IslandLizard]

Alright, that sounds very yummy!

For barley I mill at 0.034", a credit card as gauge. Even on a recirculation mash system.
I mill wheat (and rye) separately, on a narrower gap, 0.026-0.028"
That could give you the missing points back and some extra wheat character.

Do you batch sparge? 2x?

 

[cooper]

Thanks for the tip! I dont sparge at all. I use whatever the total amount of water is for the batch. I'll give that a go for the gap set and see how things go when milling the wheat as I believe thats what caused me to come in a little low for this batch.

Alright, that sounds very yummy!

For barley I mill at 0.034", a credit card as gauge. Even on a recirculation mash system.
I mill wheat (and rye) separately, on a narrower gap, 0.026-0.028"
That could give you the missing points back and some extra wheat character.

Do you batch sparge? 2x?

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the tip! I dont sparge at all. I use whatever the total amount of water is for the batch. I'll give that a go for the gap set and see how things go when milling the wheat as I believe thats what caused me to come in a little low for this batch.

Do you BIAB or use a separate mash vessel (converted cooler)?

 

[cooper]

I use BIAB, I have the BrewBoss kettle and false bottom with the High Gravity controller. I really like that set up.

 

[IslandLizard]

I use BIAB, I have the BrewBoss kettle and false bottom with the High Gravity controller. I really like that set up.

That is a nice setup!
To increase your mash efficiency, just squeezing the bag after pulling it out, and/or dunking it into a large bucket with a gallon or so of water ("sparge") removes more of the (high gravity) wort trapped in the grain. In the latter case, that's your top up water or if you don't top up, deduct that sparge volume from your strike water.

Or just use 2-3% more grist if finer milling doesn't already fix it. BIAB brewers can mill really fine as the bag is the filter. 0.39" is considered coarse for BIAB.

 

[cooper]

I definitely squeeze the bag after I pull it. I'll get a cooling rack and set the bag on it and use the kettle lid to squeeze the wort out. I've also used a finer crush, around .032 or somewhere around there and was getting some cavitation issues under the false bottom, but the bag I was using was the brew bag (https://www.brewinabag.com/) which is definitely a smaller micron than some of the others I've been using so I've been experimenting with different bags and different crush sizes to see if I can find the sweet spot.

I've also got a basket that has a 300 micron screen on it (the top 7 inches is solid sided and the bottom 6 inches or so is the mesh) and it has been having cavitation issues as well during recirculation when i've used a smaller crush size so I'm thinking about seeing how it behaves when using a .039 crush size during recirculation. I really wish I would have went with the 400 micron size but Chad at Arbor Fab was telling me that the majority of folks go with the 300 micron and have had good success.

That is a nice setup!
To increase your mash efficiency, just squeezing the bag after pulling it out, and/or dunking it into a large bucket with a gallon or so of water ("sparge") removes more of the (high gravity) wort trapped in the grain. In the latter case, that's your top up water or if you don't top up, deduct that sparge volume from your strike water.

Or just use 2-3% more grist if finer milling doesn't already fix it. BIAB brewers can mill really fine as the bag is the filter. 0.39" is considered coarse for BIAB.

 

[IslandLizard]

With that system and recirculation you can't crush too fine, you need even flow throughout. Only tighten that gap 1-2/1000" at a time. Once you find the sweet spot, stick with it. With recirculation your efficiency must be pretty high already. I don't think higher than 85% is even wanted.

When you notice plugging up with larger percentages of wheat, rye, or flaked goods, you may want to toss in half a pound (or more) of rice hulls with it to keep the grist more permeable.

 

[cooper]

Yup, when I use wheat or a bunch of flaked adjuncts I'll throw in half a pound of hulls to help with recirculation. I used the more loose mesh bag on this last batch and didn't have a single problem, but I'd also opened the gap set to .039 so I'm going to tighten it for the next batch and see where I'm at.

With that system and recirculation you can't crush too fine, you need even flow throughout. Only tighten that gap 1-2/1000" at a time. Once you find the sweet spot, stick with it. With recirculation your efficiency must be pretty high already. I don't think higher than 85% is even wanted.

When you notice plugging up with larger percentages of wheat, rye, or flaked goods, you may want to toss in half a pound (or more) of rice hulls with it to keep the grist more permeable.