Am I figuring this correctly? Estimated ABV for adding adjuncts to primary.

[mike_fini]

Hello everyone. I am new to the forum and to home brewing. I've been doing a lot of searching/reading and think I have this figured out but would like some verification and or some input from those who have more experience.

I bought a 5 gal Baltic porter extract kit with the white labs super high gravity yeast (wlp099). I plan on following the kits directions for the boil, other than I might add 1/2oz cascade hops for the last 30min and another 1/2oz for the last 10 min of the boil. The reason for adding the hops is because I plan on adding adjuncts and oxygen to the primary once a day for the first 5 days to up the abv a bit. Thinking the extra hops will help keep it balanced a bit. The kits estimated OG is 1.08 and says it should finish with around 8% abv. I'm shooting for around 10-11% abv. I also plan to add 2 vanilla beans and 4oz of cacao nibs to the secondary for the last 5 days. Do you guys think the added hops would not go well with this? They are old so don't think they will do much, but if they don't smell funny, I might throw them in to try and get a little flavor out of them.

So I already doubled up on a 2liter yeast starter yesterday as well as boiled my adjuncts and divided it up into 5 jars (1/2gal adjuncts total). 1 jar a day for the first 5 days.

The adjuncts are
1lb dark DME. = 43ppg
1lb honey. = 40ppg
1/2lb brown sugar. = 23ppg
1/2lb maple syrup. = 16ppg

Total. 122ppg
I divide that by 5.5gal for that will be my total amount of beer in the end, which equals. 22ppg
So would that be .022 I add to my OG I get with my Baltic porter kit? which added it should be right around. 1.102. Is this correct? Or am I doing this wrong? I plan on starting the brew this Wednesday. Oh and for that Baltic porter kit to finish at 8%abv with an OG of 1.08, the FG would need to be right around 1.019 correct? And if that's the case and I keep my yeast happy and healthy, will my beer, with the added fermentables finish around the same FG? If so, I should be right around were I was hoping to be (upper 10-11% range) if I did that right. Also, would this stil be considered a baltic porter or what would it be? Sorry for the super long post and all the questions. Just wanting to make sure I'm figuring this correctly.
Thanks to all in advance
Mike

 

[mike_fini]

Hello everyone. I am new to the forum and to home brewing. I've been doing a lot of searching/reading and think I have this figured out but would like some verification and or some input from those who have more experience.

I bought a 5 gal Baltic porter extract kit with the white labs super high gravity yeast (wlp099). I plan on following the kits directions for the boil, other than I might add 1/2oz cascade hops for the last 30min and another 1/2oz for the last 10 min of the boil. The reason for adding the hops is because I plan on adding adjuncts and oxygen to the primary once a day for the first 5 days to up the abv a bit. Thinking the extra hops will help keep it balanced a bit. The kits estimated OG is 1.08 and says it should finish with around 8% abv. I'm shooting for around 10-11% abv. I also plan to add 2 vanilla beans and 4oz of cacao nibs to the secondary for the last 5 days. Do you guys think the added hops would not go well with this? They are old so don't think they will do much, but if they don't smell funny, I might throw them in to try and get a little flavor out of them.

So I already doubled up on a 2liter yeast starter yesterday as well as boiled my adjuncts and divided it up into 5 jars (1/2gal adjuncts total). 1 jar a day for the first 5 days.

The adjuncts are
1lb dark DME. = 43ppg
1lb honey. = 40ppg
1/2lb brown sugar. = 23ppg
1/2lb maple syrup. = 16ppg

Total. 122ppg
I divide that by 5.5gal for that will be my total amount of beer in the end, which equals. 22ppg
So would that be .022 I add to my OG I get with my Baltic porter kit? which added it should be right around. 1.102. Is this correct? Or am I doing this wrong? I plan on starting the brew this Wednesday. Oh and for that Baltic porter kit to finish at 8%abv with an OG of 1.08, the FG would need to be right around 1.019 correct? And if that's the case and I keep my yeast happy and healthy, will my beer, with the added fermentables finish around the same FG? If so, I should be right around were I was hoping to be (upper 10-11% range) if I did that right. Also, would this stil be considered a baltic porter or what would it be? Sorry for the super long post and all the questions. Just wanting to make sure I'm figuring this correctly.
Thanks to all in advance
Mike

 

[ncbrewer]

Welcome to the forum.

First, if you're new to brewing, I wouldn't recommend a high gravity beer right away. 1.080 seems a little high, but probably ok since you already have it. If you go with your plan, you should probably oxygenate rather than just aerate.

As far as balancing extra OG with more hops, that's valid. But there seems to be a difference in opinion about whether completely, or nearly completely, fermentable items like brown sugar need to be balanced. Generally, BU:GU (bitterness units:gravity units) relates to perceived bitterness. Also, I feel that only extra bittering hops are needed - no need for the 10 minute hops. For a new brewer, I personally wouldn't add the cacao nibs or vanilla beans, and I would skip the secondary.

Your calculation of additional gravity points looks good. But ppg is generally used as points per pound per gallon - you're using it as points per gallon. No problem for your calculation, but you could get confused later when reading about gravity calculations.

Your beer should finish a little higher that the original recipe since the DME won't ferment out completely. Remember that the FG in a recipe is just an estimate.

Hopefully, others will offer advice. Some will contradict what I am suggesting. That's brewing. Listen to it all and decide for yourself.

 

[mike_fini]

Welcome to the forum.

First, if you're new to brewing, I wouldn't recommend a high gravity beer right away. 1.080 seems a little high, but probably ok since you already have it. If you go with your plan, you should probably oxygenate rather than just aerate.

As far as balancing extra OG with more hops, that's valid. But there seems to be a difference in opinion about whether completely, or nearly completely, fermentable items like brown sugar need to be balanced. Generally, BU:GU (bitterness units:gravity units) relates to perceived bitterness. Also, I feel that only extra bittering hops are needed - no need for the 10 minute hops. For a new brewer, I personally wouldn't add the cacao nibs or vanilla beans, and I would skip the secondary.

Your calculation of additional gravity points looks good. But ppg is generally used as points per pound per gallon - you're using it as points per gallon. No problem for your calculation, but you could get confused later when reading about gravity calculations.

Your beer should finish a little higher that the original recipe since the DME won't ferment out completely. Remember that the FG in a recipe is just an estimate.

Hopefully, others will offer advice. Some will contradict what I am suggesting. That's brewing. Listen to it all and decide for yourself.

Thanks for your reply. Yes the Baltic porter kit I bought says the OG should be around 1.08. Yeah, I am oxygenating. I built a diffusion wand and bought a tank and regulator. I will oxygenate once a day when I add the adjuncts. As for the 30 and 10 min hops, my idea is that they are old and might not have much in them to add for flavor/aroma so I figured I'd put them in later in the boil, as to not boil off to much, if they smell ok that is. If not, they won't be going in.

Yeah I just split the points in half since I was only planing on putting a half pound in anyway.

I was thinking it would probably finish a little higher but I also read that the super high gravity yeast could ferment some sugars that most other brewers yeast couldn't, so was thinking that might make up for the additions and might actually end up with a lower FG but I don't know about that. Thought I read that on the white labs website.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Hope to hear from others also.

 

[mike_fini]

"For a new brewer, I personally wouldn't add the cacao nibs or vanilla beans, and I would skip the secondary."

Why is that? Is this because of sanitary concerns? I grow edible mushrooms so I'm pretty anal about sterility. Just curious why you think I should skip this?
Thanks again
Mike

 

[day_trippr]

I'm kinda curious about that myself...

 

[doug293cz]

Your gravity estimate is almost correct. If you end up with 5 gal in your fermenter at an SG of 1.080, then you have 5 * 80 pts/gal = 400 pts. Your adjuncts have a total of 122 pts and all those points are in a 1/2 gal of liqiuid. After you have added all of your adjunct portions, you will have 5.5 gal with 522 total points, which is 95 points/gal, which means your effective OG will have been 1.095.

Brew on

 

[mike_fini]

Your gravity estimate is almost correct. If you end up with 5 gal in your fermenter at an SG of 1.080, then you have 5 * 80 pts/gal = 400 pts. Your adjuncts have a total of 122 pts and all those points are in a 1/2 gal of liqiuid. After you have added all of your adjunct portions, you will have 5.5 gal with 522 total points, which is 95 points/gal, which means your effective OG will have been 1.095.

Brew on

Awesome. Thank you for the info. That is simple enough. What do you think of my plan? Think it will come out well? And would this still be considered a baltic porter or what would it be? Just a chocolate vanilla porter or something entirely different since I'm adding all the adjuncts? Also just thought of another thing, my 5 gal kit came with 5oz of priming sugar. Will that be enough for 5.5gal? Or should/could I add a tbsp or 2 of pure maple syrup to make up for the extra half gallon? If I can add syrup to the mix, how much should I use?
Thanks again
Mike

 

[ncbrewer]

"For a new brewer, I personally wouldn't add the cacao nibs or vanilla beans, and I would skip the secondary."

Why is that? Is this because of sanitary concerns? I grow edible mushrooms so I'm pretty anal about sterility. Just curious why you think I should skip this?
Thanks again
Mike

I wouldn't open the fermenter any more than necessary, to reduce the chance of contamination or oxidation. If you bottle, I would just take a gravity sample 2 - 3 days before bottling day and again on bottling day to make sure the gravity is stable - and leave it closed other than that. JMO.

 

[doug293cz]

Awesome. Thank you for the info. That is simple enough. What do you think of my plan? Think it will come out well? And would this still be considered a baltic porter or what would it be? Just a chocolate vanilla porter or something entirely different since I'm adding all the adjuncts? Also just thought of another thing, my 5 gal kit came with 5oz of priming sugar. Will that be enough for 5.5gal? Or should/could I add a tbsp or 2 of pure maple syrup to make up for the extra half gallon? If I can add syrup to the mix, how much should I use?
Thanks again
Mike

Don't know about the high ABV push, as I've never done anything above about 8.2%. The choc and vanilla sounds good, although I'd do everything in primary. Can't say what style it would be, as I'm not a style expert. 5oz of priming sugar will be plenty, especially for a porter(ish) which is usually at the lower end of the carb scale. Use this priming calculator, and for temp put in the temp at the end of primary fermentation.

Brew on

 

[Calder]

The long post is probably why no-one has replied so far. Long posts get hard to keep reading.

First question is Why? Why mess with a balanced 8% brew to push the alcohol up and hope to get 10 to 11%.

For high gravity brews the abv calculation changes. Go check Brewers Friend site for their high gravity calculator.

To calculate OG Your original Og is 1.080 for 5 gallons (I assume from your post). 5 x 8 = 400 gravity points. You are adding 122 gravity points for a total of 522 points. Now you need to consider what the additional volume will be. You boiled up 3 lbs of sugars in 4 pints total, so you are adding an additional 1/2 gallon to the batch. So now to get effective OG, you would divide 522 by 5.5 gallons = 93, or 1.093.

Your additions are predominately simple sugars; 2 lbs simple sugars + 1 lb DME, so this will be more fermentable than the original wort. I would suspect you will see a lower FG than you would have in the original recipe, by about .002 to .004; pure guess, and the recipe FG of 1.019 is also only and estimate and can vary.

Do NOT oxygenate when you add the extra sugars. Oxygen is needed to reproduce yeast. You will already have a full yeast colony when you add the additional sugars. The added O2 will not be used and will just stale the beer.

 

[mike_fini]

First question is Why? Why mess with a balanced 8% brew to push the alcohol up and hope to get 10 to 11%.

I guess because once I get an idea in my head, I do it. Anyone can brew a kit. I just wanted to play around with one.

For high gravity brews the abv calculation changes. Go check Brewers Friend site for their high gravity calculator.

To calculate OG Your original Og is 1.080 for 5 gallons (I assume from your post). 5 x 8 = 400 gravity points. You are adding 122 gravity points for a total of 522 points. Now you need to consider what the additional volume will be. You boiled up 3 lbs of sugars in 4 pints total, so you are adding an additional 1/2 gallon to the batch. So now to get effective OG, you would divide 522 by 5.5 gallons = 93, or 1.093.

Your additions are predominately simple sugars; 2 lbs simple sugars + 1 lb DME, so this will be more fermentable than the original wort. I would suspect you will see a lower FG than you would have in the original recipe, by about .002 to .004; pure guess, and the recipe FG of 1.019 is also only and estimate and can vary.

Awesome. Thanks for taking the time to give me all this info.

Do NOT oxygenate when you add the extra sugars. Oxygen is needed to reproduce yeast. You will already have a full yeast colony when you add the additional sugars. The added O2 will not be used and will just stale the beer.

I've been reading, that for high gravity beers you want to add the adjuncts to the primary in small doses throughout the first 5-6 days of fermentation and oxygenate each time to keep the yeast happy, healthy and keep them from stalling. I've also read that if the yeast is doing well and producing alcohol and co2, you shouldn't worry about your beer oxidizing because the yeast is eating up all the oxygen you add. After the last jar, no more oxygen. Just let it do its thing for another week or two then transfer to secondary for another 2-4 weeks then in the bottle for at least 3 months. Best to go 6-12 months. Does this sound right to anyone else. Everything I've been reading about bigger beers have all been pretty much going in this direction.
Thanks again.

 

[McKnuckle]

Yeast metabolize oxygen during their initial growth phase after pitching as they adapt to their new environment. Once they begin metabolizing sugars, turning them into alcohol and CO2, they are not going to also scour and utilize O2. The warning to avoid all O2 after the growth phase is sound. Ignore this at your peril.

 

[mike_fini]

Yeast metabolize oxygen during their initial growth phase after pitching as they adapt to their new environment. Once they begin metabolizing sugars, turning them into alcohol and CO2, they are not going to also scour and utilize O2. The warning to avoid all O2 after the growth phase is sound. Ignore this at your peril.

Ok thanks for your advise.

I just read this article, it sounds a little more reasonable than what I was thinking/reading about before, about oxygenating at every addition for the first 5 days.

Here is the link. https://byo.com/malt/item/1882-fermenting-high-gravity-beers-techniques

Or here is part of the article.
Tactics for really big beers

For a really big beer or barley wine with a starting gravity of 20 °Plato (specific gravity > 1.083) or more, consider pitching multiple strains of yeast together at the start to assure complete fermentation and achieve a more complex flavor profile. While it is essential to have a strain of yeast in the mix that can tolerate higher levels of alcohol, a less alcohol-tolerant strain can contribute its own flavors up until the alcohol content of the beer exceeds its limit. At that point, one or more alcohol-tolerant strains can carry on until the desired level of attenuation and alcohol production is achieved. Do not be tempted to use a wine or champagne yeast to finish out fermentation, such yeast could finish too dry, leaving your beer without the desired flavors available from beer yeast. If you need a strain to serve as a "closer," consider one of the Trappist high gravity, Belgian strong ale or Abbey ale strains that can tolerate 12–15% alcohol by volume while not straying from the desired flavor profile.

As the concentration of the wort increases, so should oxygenation. For wort of 20 °Plato (specific gravity 1.083) or more, aerate up to an hour with air, or ten minutes with oxygen to be sure oxygen is not lacking for the yeast to grow. While additional aeration after the start of fermentation is often discouraged in brewing as it may result in off flavors, it may be useful to supply additional oxygen to your wort up to the point of high kräusen (peak of fermentation activity). This can be accomplished by simply inserting a sanitized aeration apparatus into the fermenting wort and briefly bubbling in oxygen or filtered air. By briefly, I mean less than two minutes using oxygen or less than ten minutes with air. This can give the yeast a boost without running the risk of developing off-flavors associated with late aeration (cardboard or sherry-like flavors). Additional aeration during fermentation should typically not be necessary if a sufficient quantity of yeast was pitched at the start of fermentation.

 

[McKnuckle]

Okay, it's still something I'd probably be cautious about, but there's an important caveat in the quote regarding timing:

"While additional aeration after the start of fermentation is often discouraged in brewing as it may result in off flavors, it may be useful to supply additional oxygen to your wort up to the point of high kräusen..."

That means usually within the first 48-60 hours, definitely not after.

The thing about adding sugar slowly probably has to do with "goosing" the yeast to consume sucrose/glucose while not diverting them too much from their maltose diet. In other words, they are lazy and will prefer to eat heaps of pasta - if available - rather than their meatballs, possibly until they are too fat and happy to finish the latter.

Simple sugar is sometimes added to primary towards the middle/end of fermentation to keep things going, but not at the expense of the malt sugars we want the yeast to eat first.

 

[doug293cz]

Thread moved to "General Homebrew Discussion" thread, which is a more appropriate place for it.

doug293cz

 

[mike_fini]

Oh ok, I got ya. That makes sense. Thanks for all the help. Lol I like the spaghetti and meatballs comparison.

Simple sugar is sometimes added to primary towards the middle/end of fermentation to keep things going, but not at the expense of the malt sugars we want the yeast to eat first.

Ok so after high krausen when I add my adjuncts without oxygen, should I gently stir it in or just pour it in and let the yeast do its thing? Also, do you think I would be better off adding a jar once every two days rather that once a day since the jars are 2/3 simple sugars? Giving the yeast a chance to get back to eating the maltose?

 

[mike_fini]

Thread moved to "General Homebrew Discussion" thread, which is a more appropriate place for it.

doug293cz

Yeah sorry. That was my very first time on this forum and I don't even know how I ended up in that topic/thread. Whoops.

 

[mike_fini]

Well, I boiled my wort today. I did end up adding a half oz of cascade hops at the last 30 min of boil and a half oz at the last 10 min. Once cooled to 68°F I checked the OG and it came out a little higher than expected, 1.090. And the wort tasted amazing. I could have drank a pitcher of it. Can't wait to taste test as things progress. Thanks for all the help guys.
Mike

 

[mike_fini]

Simple sugar is sometimes added to primary towards the middle/end of fermentation to keep things going, but not at the expense of the malt sugars we want the yeast to eat first.

Ok so after high krausen when I add my adjuncts without oxygen, should I gently stir it in or just pour it in and let the yeast do its thing? Also, do you think I would be better off adding a jar once every two days rather that once a day since the jars are 2/3 simple sugars? Giving the yeast a chance to get back to eating the maltose?

Does anyone have any advise on this?
Thanks in advance

 

[Lefou]

Multiple additions of fermentables into the primary opens up more opportunity for staling or contamination. I'd allow for a bit of space in the primary and do one addition and be done with it.
The reason you would add during or just after high krausen would be to assure yourself the yeast adapted to going after maltose first. With plenty of healthy yeast available a stalled fermentation is less likely.