Alternatives to BruControl for Arduino?

[shoo]

I know this forum has a particular liking for BruControl. It seems great, but $100 is pretty far out of my price range for software. Any alternatives out there for arduino? General tools for basic UIs that others have used?

 

[Gameface]

I know this forum has a particular liking for BruControl. It seems great, but $100 is pretty far out of my price range for software. Any alternatives out there for arduino? General tools for basic UIs that others have used?

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but what are your expected equipment costs? Seems like $100 for software isn't too much in the grand scheme of things.

I think if you want open source it seems like raspberry pi is the way to go vs arduino. But I don't really know.

 

[day_trippr]

Is there anything approaching a full-on brew day controller with a respectable ui based on Arduino?
Seems unlikely to me given the limited memory...

Cheers!

 

[shoo]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but what are your expected equipment costs? Seems like $100 for software isn't too much in the grand scheme of things.

I think if you want open source it seems like raspberry pi is the way to go vs arduino. But I don't really know.

Not confrontational at all. Mostly a value of my time vs. money thing. In my case, the total additional hardware purchase to go from my existing control setup to an arduino-based one (cannibalizing my old setup) is going to end up being ~$100, so the software doubles my build cost. I'm new to the arduino world, so if there was some kind of framework that would help build a near-equivalent, great. Otherwise, I'm doing it from scratch, which isn't much of a problem.

Is there anything approaching a full-on brew day controller with a respectable ui based on Arduino?
Seems unlikely to me given the limited memory...

Cheers!

I named one that does exactly that in the title, soooo. . .

 

[Bigdaddyale]

http://web.craftbeerpi.com/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/craftbeerpi-raspberry-pi-software.569497/

 

[day_trippr]

Brucontrol needs more than just an Arduino, yes? Like, a host?

Cheers!

 

[shoo]

http://web.craftbeerpi.com/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/craftbeerpi-raspberry-pi-software.569497/

Thanks, but that is for raspberry pi, not arduino.

Brucontrol needs more than just an Arduino, yes? Like, a host?

Cheers!

Brucontrol runs its scripts fully on the arduino, but the UI runs on a windows computer (which does not need to be continuously connected during the run). That is more than fine for my needs.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Thanks, but that is for raspberry pi, not arduino.

Last time I checked the software was free for single users and a pi zero.w is five bucks with another five bucks for a knock-off PCB. I bet you could put together a controller for under 50 bucks

 

[jangevaa]

Check out node-red, it can be used with arduino. I used it to create a brewery control and a dashboard quickly for my RIMS brewery (volume sensing, PID, manual element control and pump switches, etc.)

https://nodered.org/docs/hardware/arduino

 

[augiedoggy]

Not confrontational at all. Mostly a value of my time vs. money thing.



. . .

Good luck in whatever softwareyou do decide to try,
But From most of what I read the real value in brucontrol is that its actually stable and works without constantly having to fiddle and reset and having things go wrong in the middle of brewday. Just something to consider but a lot of people that tried the often poorly supported freeware have switched to brucontrol to have a platform and support rather than continue to waste hours of their time trying to get everything to work...( Kind of reminds me of my home theater pc or FTA days). Consider that the cost of brucontrol with an arduino and rtd board interface module with boards is still about the cost of 3 ezboil units. Than when you consider all the additional things it can do it really becomes a value... Its tough when your going from an analog panel to this because you have all that obsolete hardware and holes in the panel... I just decided to start fresh myself and picked up components as I could afford them for my first brucontrol build. You could always try to sell your old panel and make some $$ to fund the new one. You might find the profit will help.

There are other things too like the rtd support that set brucontrol ahead of a lot of other current software solutions out there that im aware of.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Just curious? What exactly are your goals? Full automation or just run some PIDs for kettles?

But From most of what I read the real value in brucontrol is that its actually stable and works without constantly having to fiddle and reset and having things go wrong in the middle of brewday

^^^^This! $100 is small price to pay for peace of mind when you're mixing electronics and liquids! No, I've never used it nor do I own the software...

I've been (was) working on standalone touch screen controller panel with some brewday automation with hopes to be able to add additional automation later, and without a programming background it has taken quite a long time. Being someone who is inefficient in coding I feel my code is clunky and it was definitely riddled with bugs. Sure, it's gotten better but it takes a lot of time and effort especially when you have a full time job and other commitments. To be quite honest, I've since ditched the automation route and said "screw it, I'm going BIAB." I've probably spent over $100 in "R&D" in sensors/valves/etc. alone. Just sayin...

Also, BrunDog stays on the this forum and is incredible with customer support and guiding BruControl setups and questions. I don't know how he gets anything else done...

 

[shoo]

Just curious? What exactly are your goals? Full automation or just run some PIDs for kettles?

Ramping up from partial automation to full automation, but with a system that is very, very different than the norm. I don't want to get into details here, but I have a particularly weird use case, so I have to do a lot of bespoke coding regardless. I'm not even 100% sure that BruControl has the scripting flexibility to handle it without some really hacky solutions.

For my use case BruControl is simultaneously way overkill for part of what I need it to handle (a PID-based temp regulator or two and some other minor things), and way underkill for other parts. It just doesn't add very much to my specific use. That's not to say it isn't a great product, I'm sure it is. It just doesn't do $100 worth of stuff for me personally.

I have a background in coding, so it's not a huge problem for me to write (and I've written most of it already, and will be coding the rest alongside the hardware build as it progresses). In the end, there is just no way for me to justify that $100, much less the extra $50 that it would cost to add wireless, which I will eventually want. For me, better to just build from scratch and the existing Arduino libraries.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I don't want to get into details here, but I have a particularly weird use case, so I have to do a lot of bespoke coding regardless.

Sounds illegal! Lol. I'm sure you could automate just about anything with it. Homebrewery, grow house, whatever...

Attempting to go full automation when $100 breaks the bank cracks me up! I hope it works out for you...

 

[shoo]

Sounds illegal! Lol. I'm sure you could automate just about anything with it. Homebrewery, grow house, whatever...

Heh, re-reading that definitely makes it sound like something a bit more...nefarious, but that's just what an illegal grow house operator would say . $100 doesn't break the bank, it just doubles my control panel build cost and has little added benefit to me personally. Plus, like many other brewers, I enjoy a DIY approach to these sorts of things. Sometimes I am willing to spend to make things easier, sometimes I am not. After all, I could just buy my beer like a normal human.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Heh, re-reading that definitely makes it sound like something a bit more...nefarious, but that's just what an illegal grow house operator would say . $100 doesn't break the bank, it just doubles my control panel build cost and has little added benefit to me personally. Plus, like many other brewers, I enjoy a DIY approach to these sorts of things. Sometimes I am willing to spend to make things easier, sometimes I am not. After all, I could just buy my beer like a normal human.

Yes! Indeed, that is exact response I would expect. Lol!

I agree about the DIY mentality, and my initial arduino RIMS controller build was under $100 as well. Going to speak bluntly here, but didn't you essentially ask for a cheaper alternative to BruControl, or pre-made software? Not hating on you, just pointing out that your OP contradicts your need for DIY argument...Just buy the damn software! Lol.

Honestly, you could cheaply build an arduino based automated controller without a GUI, but I imagine some difficult challenges and limitations. But then again I'm not a programmer...

 

[BrunDog]

Obviously I have been watching this thread, but have been reticent to reply in fear of appearing biased. In truth, I think everyone should pursue what they think is best for their application. I agree that @shoo seems to be sending mixed messages... If you enjoy DIY and want to flex some new muscle, then absolutely go for it - but know it will cost you more than a few hundred dollars assuming you value your time.

In any event, I'm willing to help where I can. There are some front ends for Arduino like Blynk, but without knowing more specifics of your application, it is tough for me to advice what is a potential fit.

 

[shoo]

Happy for you to join in. However, I don't really think I am sending mixed messages here, and am not sure why there seems to be a belief that I either have to be 100% all DIY all day (which doesn't even really make sense, nothing is 100% DIY), or 0% buy everything out of the box, especially since this is a definitionally somewhere between 0 and 100% DIY hobby.

I am willing to spend some sometimes to make my life easier when I don't want/need to DIY something. I want to automate, but I didn't make a computer control board starting from mining rare earth elements; I bought an arduino. I would be willing to spend (far, far less than $100) for something that might save me a bit of time coding, since I don't enjoy that part of the process quite as much, but would happily do that part when the trade-off is $100. That's entirely consistent.

Edit: Let me make this more explicit. If BruControl was $20, I would buy it. If I did not have very specific reasons why I am using an Arduino, I would have bought a raspberry pi and used craftbeerpi, which is free. I am also willing to bet that there are a lot of others in a similar boat who went the pi route specifically for that reason. $100 is a lot to ask when you are competing with free.

Again, I have no doubt that BruControl is an excellent polished product that is super useful. And I have no doubt that @BrunDog sticks by the product, nor that it is worth $100 or more for many many people. It just isn't for me.

 

[Gameface]

Good luck in whatever softwareyou do decide to try,
But From most of what I read the real value in brucontrol is that its actually stable and works without constantly having to fiddle and reset and having things go wrong in the middle of brewday. Just something to consider but a lot of people that tried the often poorly supported freeware have switched to brucontrol to have a platform and support rather than continue to waste hours of their time trying to get everything to work...( Kind of reminds me of my home theater pc or FTA days). Consider that the cost of brucontrol with an arduino and rtd board interface module with boards is still about the cost of 3 ezboil units. Than when you consider all the additional things it can do it really becomes a value... Its tough when your going from an analog panel to this because you have all that obsolete hardware and holes in the panel... I just decided to start fresh myself and picked up components as I could afford them for my first brucontrol build. You could always try to sell your old panel and make some $$ to fund the new one. You might find the profit will help.

There are other things too like the rtd support that set brucontrol ahead of a lot of other current software solutions out there that im aware of.

Yeah, I'm selling my old panel at well over 2x what I paid in parts for it. Absolutely helped push me towards a full brucontrol based build.

 

[passedpawn]

Happy for you to join in. However, I don't really think I am sending mixed messages here, and am not sure why there seems to be a belief that I either have to be 100% all DIY all day (which doesn't even really make sense, nothing is 100% DIY), or 0% buy everything out of the box, especially since this is a definitionally somewhere between 0 and 100% DIY hobby.

I am willing to spend some sometimes to make my life easier when I don't want/need to DIY something. I want to automate, but I didn't make a computer control board starting from mining rare earth elements; I bought an arduino. I would be willing to spend (far, far less than $100) for something that might save me a bit of time coding, since I don't enjoy that part of the process quite as much, but would happily do that part when the trade-off is $100. That's entirely consistent.

Edit: Let me make this more explicit. If BruControl was $20, I would buy it. If I did not have very specific reasons why I am using an Arduino, I would have bought a raspberry pi and used craftbeerpi, which is free. I am also willing to bet that there are a lot of others in a similar boat who went the pi route specifically for that reason. $100 is a lot to ask when you are competing with free.

Again, I have no doubt that BruControl is an excellent polished product that is super useful. And I have no doubt that @BrunDog sticks by the product, nor that it is worth $100 or more for many many people. It just isn't for me.

If the competing products are free, then use them? Problem solved!

 

[GoeHaarden]

I want to automate, but I didn't make a computer control board starting from mining rare earth elements; I bought an arduino.

Lol. This made me laugh. Understood, things get misconstrued in text.

I looked for a long time for such programming tools/libraries for arduino to no avail. Other than PID and autotune, there isn't much or at least not that I could find.

Honestly, I don't think automation is the hard part it's the integration of all the different types of data. Depending on the types of sensors you add. Not to mention programming the GUI.

I think you could do it cheap, but it wont be pretty or easily expandable for cheap. I mean it's pretty easy to control a relay that opens/closes a valve in response to anything (time/fluid level sensor/simple step/whatever)...what more do you want?

 

[shoo]

Thanks for looking, I did the same. Like I said, I am almost done with the code already (i.e. am in the forever tweaking phase). Frankly, if you have any sort of coding experience at all, it's pretty easy. The only thing that BruControl would do for me that I can't fairly easily do for myself from plain code is the GUI.

Also, for what it's worth, I am pretty disappointed in this community. Of the 20 posts in this thread, maybe 4 or 5 were actual good faith efforts to help out.

Specific thanks to @jangevaa for the nodered suggestion and @BrunDog for Blynk. A quick look suggests that Blynk might be the holy grail for UI that I was looking for. Got there eventually, but man that took some doing.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

[QUOTE="
Also, for what it's worth, I am pretty disappointed in this community. Of the 20 posts in this thread, maybe 4 or 5 were actual good faith efforts to help out.

[/QUOTE]
That's a fine how-do-you-do. What a JA

 

[GoeHaarden]

Also, for what it's worth, I am pretty disappointed in this community. Of the 20 posts in this thread, maybe 4 or 5 were actual good faith efforts to help out.

You get what you put in...maybe some more info on your system/goals would have garnered more input! Help us, help you!!!

@Bigdaddyale Agreed!

 

[jimmayhugh]

I use the Teensy for most of my projects; lots of space and I/O, and you can use most Arduino libraries as well as the IDE.

 

[BrunDog]

@shoo I hope you understand that you confused us. Maybe it was clear in your mind, but not ours. Your first post said BC is out of your price range, but later said you wanted DIY. Honestly speaking, this is a direct paradox if you value your time. Heck, more than 8 hours of programming/integrating if you earned just minimum wage, and it starts to cost you. Certainly not implying BruControl doesn’t require setup & tuning time, but writing code for a microcontroller is very inefficient in terms of time (without a legit debugger anyway).

Again, let us know how we can further help, but more details on your build would likely get you more targeted solutions.

 

[JM-brew]

Maybe check out Open Ardbir. Not clear on what your exact needs are, but might be more along the lines of what your looking for.

 

[Bernhard]

Let me throw another option on the table: Building a BierBot Brick yourself.

- Hardware is super cheap (Sonoff TH16 $25)
- Build is super easy, step-by-step is available on YouTube (cut a extension cord in half, connect it to the TH16, flash the Th16 with an alternate software for brewing).
- Software is Open Source GitHub - BernhardSchlegel/BierBot-Bricks: Beer brewing and fermentation control for homebrewers with a nice web UI for 25 bucks.

Cheers,
Bernhard.

Disclaimer: I'm the author

 

[TenaCJed]

I have no suggestions on options, but I look at the $100 a little differently. To me the $100 is more about support. BrunDog has been very active in the forums here, and on the brucontrol site. He has also been very responsive to e-mail as well. When you go with free, well good luck with support and searching \ posting forums. I will take support any day and that one time cost for many years of support is worth it!

I got in with Brucontrol within the first year of release, but took a little while to get my controller operational. I have needed help \ support in getting the controller \ parts operational and for other dumb things I did and not realizing (renaming my computer for example) throughout those years and almost every time a response was received same day with help. I think only once it was not a same day response and that was due to evening email sent. Support like that is with out a doubt worth it. It does not matter how much you can do yourself, you will almost always get stuck on something and need help. As long as you can provide schematics, BrunDog will provide help with the control panel should you have issues with that along with suggestions on how to accomplish a goal \ task if possible.

 

[swanwick]

Good customer support creates a community over time. That community then extends the ability to provide customer support. @BrunDog is still in the early days of building his community. But, as more and more people become familiar with his products and the variety of use cases that they can support, the community may tend to appear to outsiders as a quasi-cult. Any time you have invested a lot of time into something, you are by definition "invested".

While I agree with the posters who suggest that @shoo should have been more clear with his parameters (eg. value of his time) and should not have lashed out at people who are donating their time to try to help, we should also reflect on the many decisions that we have internalized into our being over time. We have our own parameters that make certain choices "obvious" to us. Those choices may not yet be or may never be equally clear to others.

Sorry for the philosophizing. I am just another brewer struggling to learn and enjoying every minute of something fun with so many facets that ends up as beer.