Alchemist Crusher - Can you clone it?

[MrPowers]

Decided to do a single malt Pearl/Dextrose IIPA with Conan, you know, for science.

I hopped this one with 40ibu of extract to bitter and Summit/Idaho 7 in the whirlpool/dry hop. I would say the malt character is a perfect starting point for Heady/Focal/Crusher.

Mine came out much softer and rounder than any of the alchemist IPA’s. I soft crashed pre-dry hopping, only used 400ppm Sulfate, and naturally carbonated with CBC1.

I think you could really push it into the 500-700ppm range for sulfate and 60-80ibu calculated bittering addition and you would be in the ballpark.

 

[Dgallo]

Decided to do a single malt Pearl/Dextrose IIPA with Conan, you know, for science.

I hopped this one with 40ibu of extract to bitter and Summit/Idaho 7 in the whirlpool/dry hop. I would say the malt character is a perfect starting point for Heady/Focal/Crusher. N

Mine came out much softer and rounder than any of the alchemist IPA’s. I soft crashed pre-dry hopping, only used 400ppm Sulfate, and naturally carbonated with CBC1.

I think you could really push it into the 500-700ppm range for sulfate and 60-80ibu calculated bittering addition and you would be in the ballpark.View attachment 689800

Looks great. Seems like a **** ton of sulfate though. Did you push it based off a reference?

 

[MrPowers]

Looks great. Seems like a **** ton of sulfate though. Did you push it based off a reference?

I don’t remember if it was in here, but I recall hearing an interview where John says he can/sometimes will push the sulfate that high in his IPA’s:



I’ve been slowly working up to it on all my NEIPA’s, even ones that are supposed to be “Juicy”. I started out trying 225ppm, then bumped up to 300, now this one at 400. It doesn’t come across as chalky/salty/mineraly at all and it really does help the hops pop—even using CBC1 to natural carb. A lot of NEIPA’s tend to have too much sweetness that lingers in the finish. Running the sulfate high, you can pack a lot of malt flavor and late hops in and still retain some balance and drinkability. You can still keep the beer soft and juicy, but dry enough to keep coming back for more.

 

[betty_ford]

Decided to do a single malt Pearl/Dextrose IIPA with Conan, you know, for science.

I hopped this one with 40ibu of extract to bitter and Summit/Idaho 7 in the whirlpool/dry hop. I would say the malt character is a perfect starting point for Heady/Focal/Crusher.

Mine came out much softer and rounder than any of the alchemist IPA’s. I soft crashed pre-dry hopping, only used 400ppm Sulfate, and naturally carbonated with CBC1.

I think you could really push it into the 500-700ppm range for sulfate and 60-80ibu calculated bittering addition and you would be in the ballpark.View attachment 689800

Nice, I’ve been thinking about really cranking up the sulfate lately. I won’t be able to brew any ipas any time soon, but definitely have this on my radar, along with your exact malt bill and a high level of ibu and some classic American hops. I’ve just been craving that alchemist flavor in my ipas and nobody else does it quite like them. I prefer the balance compared to the juice coming from the rest of the northeast personally.

 

[Dgallo]

I don’t remember if it was in here, but I recall hearing an interview where John says he can/sometimes will push the sulfate that high in his IPA’s:



I’ve been slowly working up to it on all my NEIPA’s, even ones that are supposed to be “Juicy”. I started out trying 225ppm, then bumped up to 300, now this one at 400. It doesn’t come across as chalky/salty/mineraly at all and it really does help the hops pop—even using CBC1 to natural carb. A lot of NEIPA’s tend to have too much sweetness that lingers in the finish. Running the sulfate high, you can pack a lot of malt flavor and late hops in and still retain some balance and drinkability. You can still keep the beer soft and juicy, but dry enough to keep coming back for more.

I’ve seen a report where a cab of heady was tested and it came back at 430ish sulfate but I didn’t know how much came from the grains and what wa s their target

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Decided to do a single malt Pearl/Dextrose IIPA with Conan, you know, for science.

I hopped this one with 40ibu of extract to bitter and Summit/Idaho 7 in the whirlpool/dry hop. I would say the malt character is a perfect starting point for Heady/Focal/Crusher.

Mine came out much softer and rounder than any of the alchemist IPA’s. I soft crashed pre-dry hopping, only used 400ppm Sulfate, and naturally carbonated with CBC1.

I think you could really push it into the 500-700ppm range for sulfate and 60-80ibu calculated bittering addition and you would be in the ballpark.

I've done a few IPAs recently that were ~575 ppm sulfate and 35 ppm chloride. They came out great, not overly bitter as is often claimed, but very dry. Much drier than Heady Topper in side-by-side tastings. The Ward report I've seen for finished Heady is 468 ppm sulfate. There's not a ton of data on this but from what I have seen brewing liquor -> finished IPA is ballpark +150-250 ppm sulfate. So that would put Heady starting at ~250-350 ppm sulfate. I think this is probably roughly accurate, though they might go higher on some batches (all cans are blend of 4 brews). The brew sheet released was ~650 ppm sulfate and 35 ppm chloride total brewing liquor (including sparge, 776 gallons for 15 BBL batch), but based on my experience brewing this hard, I'd be pretty surprised if they're always doing this. Of course my beers weren't Pearl/Conan so my comparison could have been closer, and I can't make beers like John Kimmich can...

 

[betty_ford]

I've done a few IPAs recently that were ~575 ppm sulfate and 35 ppm chloride. They came out great, not overly bitter as is often claimed, but very dry. Much drier than Heady Topper in side-by-side tastings. The Ward report I've seen for finished Heady is 468 ppm sulfate. There's not a ton of data on this but from what I have seen brewing liquor -> finished IPA is ballpark +150-250 ppm sulfate. So that would put Heady starting at ~250-350 ppm sulfate. I think this is probably roughly accurate, though they might go higher on some batches (all cans are blend of 4 brews). The brew sheet released was ~650 ppm sulfate and 35 ppm chloride total brewing liquor (including sparge, 776 gallons for 15 BBL batch), but based on my experience brewing this hard, I'd be pretty surprised if they're always doing this. Of course my beers weren't Pearl/Conan so my comparison could have been closer, and I can't make beers like John Kimmich can...

No, but trying is fun.

 

[MrPowers]

I've done a few IPAs recently that were ~575 ppm sulfate and 35 ppm chloride. They came out great, not overly bitter as is often claimed, but very dry. Much drier than Heady Topper in side-by-side tastings. The Ward report I've seen for finished Heady is 468 ppm sulfate. There's not a ton of data on this but from what I have seen brewing liquor -> finished IPA is ballpark +150-250 ppm sulfate. So that would put Heady starting at ~250-350 ppm sulfate. I think this is probably roughly accurate, though they might go higher on some batches (all cans are blend of 4 brews). The brew sheet released was ~650 ppm sulfate and 35 ppm chloride total brewing liquor (including sparge, 776 gallons for 15 BBL batch), but based on my experience brewing this hard, I'd be pretty surprised if they're always doing this. Of course my beers weren't Pearl/Conan so my comparison could have been closer, and I can't make beers like John Kimmich can...

Where is that brew sheet?

I would say that could be in the ballpark. I'm in Iowa, so I don't have any Heady to compare to. Mine is just calculated at 400, so it's hard to say where the final numbers worked out. I brew low oxygen, so my beers tend to come out less bitter and with more malt flavor than average. I wouldn't call this beer dry, but

Nice, I’ve been thinking about really cranking up the sulfate lately. I won’t be able to brew any ipas any time soon, but definitely have this on my radar, along with your exact malt bill and a high level of ibu and some classic American hops. I’ve just been craving that alchemist flavor in my ipas and nobody else does it quite like them. I prefer the balance compared to the juice coming from the rest of the northeast personally.

A lot of it depends on your brewing technique too. I brew low oxygen, so my beers consistently come out more malty and less bitter than they used to. It’s not the classic alchemist flavor, it’s a lot softer and rounder than I’ve had from them.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Looks great. Seems like a **** ton of sulfate though.

Not by British standards - some of the deep wells in Burton go up over 1000ppm, and several hundred ppm SO4 is pretty normal here.

 

[gbbeer]

Convenient time to see this thread as I just got my first four packs of Heady Topper and Focal Banger.

 

[MrPowers]

Convenient time to see this thread as I just got my first four packs of Heady Topper and Focal Banger.

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

 

[stickyfinger]

I'd love to try Pearl malt again, but the last time I did I got two full sacks of it and both gave me a medicinal/smokey character that destroyed the IPAs. I think they were Fawcett. I'd agree Alchemist is doing something to get a very nice unique malt background, which must be Pearl malt, but not like the stuff I used...

 

[MrPowers]

I'd love to try Pearl malt again, but the last time I did I got two full sacks of it and both gave me a medicinal/smokey character that destroyed the IPAs. I think they were Fawcett. I'd agree Alchemist is doing something to get a very nice unique malt background, which must be Pearl malt, but not like the stuff I used...

I honestly don’t think there is anything particularly special about Pearl malt. You do need it to get in the ballpark of the alchemist character, if that’s what you’re shooting for.

Compared to Golden promise, pearl has head retention and isn’t as sweet. Compared to maris otter it’s more neutral and less toasty, but it has a similar sweetness. Compared to Rahr 2-row it’s slightly more bready, and had similar beer properties (turbidity/head retention/etc...).

I personally think it falls somewhere between rahr 2-row and maris otter, leaning closer to Rahr 2 row.
- Rahr 2-row is white bread off the shelf at the supermarket
- Pearl is fresh baked white bread
- Maris Otter is toasted, fresh baked white bread
- Golden promise is graham crackers

Its a nice malt, but in my own beers, I can’t justify paying a premium for it. I’ve never gotten any of the smoky/medicinal character from it! I would say that’s probably just a fluke.