Advice on my plan for WLP099 method and blend with WLP530. Est SG = 1.200

[QuagmiresChin]

I'm about to go for my first batch with WLP099. Planned OG for this batch will be 1.200. I've had success with my other high gravity beers but all below 1.110 and have never used 099 before so I'm looking for advice/constructive criticism to get this right. 530 is the primary yeast for this one but it will die out early because of the high abv, that's why 099 is in the plan. I've researched this for months now so I know the basics but still I'd like some input specifically on the blending of the 530 and 099 as well as the method. Fermentation is temp controlled in a chest freezer with internal probe and heat wrap on hand. Will have blowoff into iodine water. I have a pressure canner for later additions to the fermenter. 02 injector, stir plate, fermcap, and yeast nutrient will be used.


Batch #1 planned OG 1.104. Uses WLP530.

1) WLP530 starter: 1.25L @ 1.037 SG stepped up to 3.25L @ 1.070.​

2) Pitch onto 02 aerated 3gal of 5 gal batch. Remaining 2 gal is pressure canned into pinto jars. Should have around 17 jars.​

3) Aerate each pint upon opening and add in intervals of 2 pints after high krausen. Probe set to 55° initial 24hrs, 65 thereafter, 70° towards end of fermentation.​

4) 2 weeks total in primary, transfer to secondary during boil of batch #2.​

Batch #2 planned OG 1.200. Uses WLP530 AND WLP099.

1) WLP099 starter: 1.25L @ 1.037 SG stepped up to 3.25L @ 1.070.​

2) A first and second run of the mash will be collected- Strong and Weak. My recipe calls for LME so it will be added to both collections but ultimately the weak collection will boil down to 2gal @ [hopefully around] 1.100 SG based on how much LME is added to the weak collection. The remainder of the LME will go into the strong collection. It will be boiled and canned for later additions to the fermenter.​

3) The 2gal Weak collection is pitched onto yeast cake of WLP530 from batch #1 and the starter of WLP099 is added. Swirl then O2 aerate. Probe set to 55° initial 24hrs, 65° thereafter, 70° towards end of primary fermentation.​

4) Pressure can strong collection after the boil into pint jars. Should be around 26 jars.​

5) Aerate each pint upon opening and add 1 pint after high krausen. Repeat until 14* jars left then add 2 pints each for each addition.​

6) Time in primary depends on FG reading. Will age in secondary at 55° for a few months then sit in the keg until next winter.​

* I'll decide when to do 2 pint intervals based on SG level and krausen level.



Thanks for your help

 

[hottpeper13]

And I thought waiting to add the sugar solution in primary was too much attention. WOW

 

[pdxal]

You might be making it more complicated than necessary, but go for it. With staggered additions of wort you might have to worry about oxidation and contamination, though.
My advice would be to avoid the 1.070 starters. Using wort that strong for your starters will impair yeast health and you want your yeasties as healthy as possible for this task. 1.030-1.040 should be the gravity. Higher gravity fermentation, even overpitched, will sacrifice yeast health.

 

[QuagmiresChin]

You might be making it more complicated than necessary, but go for it. With staggered additions of wort you might have to worry about oxidation and contamination, though.
My advice would be to avoid the 1.070 starters. Using wort that strong for your starters will impair yeast health and you want your yeasties as healthy as possible for this task. 1.030-1.040 should be the gravity. Higher gravity fermentation, even overpitched, will sacrifice yeast health.

I read from brew logs of homebrewers that the idea was to condition the yeast for an environment with a high SG. I haven't read anything published to back up the idea tho. It would be more manageable and less costly to keep all starters at 1.037.

 

[jahdub]

I'm confused, so you're going to try to brew a 20%+ beer without using pure sugar additions and without distilling?

 

[QuagmiresChin]

I'm confused, so you're going to try to brew a 20%+ beer without using pure sugar additions and without distilling?

Correct. I'd like to emphasize try. Because of space limitation in my mash tun, 11# of LME will be thrown in pre-boil.

 

[brewmeister13]

I don't have any answers for you, but if you haven't come across these, there is a lot of good info here.

Here is about yeast starters: http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices It does suggest higher gravity starters, 1.065, for high gravity beers. It goes into a bit of detail, but it speculates that osmotic shock is the reason for using higher gravity.

Here is good info on high gravity brewing in general. http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/thinking-big-getting-handle-brewing-big-beers With this info I got WLP007 to hit just over 15%.

 

[QuagmiresChin]

I don't have any answers for you, but if you haven't come across these, there is a lot of good info here.

Here is about yeast starters: http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices It does suggest higher gravity starters, 1.065, for high gravity beers. It goes into a bit of detail, but it speculates that osmotic shock is the reason for using higher gravity.

Here is good info on high gravity brewing in general. http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/thinking-big-getting-handle-brewing-big-beers With this info I got WLP007 to hit just over 15%.

That's exactly along the lines of what I've read so far. Thanks for the sources!

 

[QuagmiresChin]

Anyone have thoughts about when to add the 099? I've read that some people add it right before their main yeast die from the high alcohol just to finish those last few SG points but the WLP site says to baby it from the beginning of fermentation if I want the full +20%. Obviously I'm leaning toward the WLP site but I'm open to ideas.

Minor detail but any input on the ratio between the yeast cake of 530 and the 3.25L starter of 099?

 

[brewmeister13]

If it were me I'd pitch a reasonable amount of 530, between 1-1.5 mil cells/mL/˚P, and ferment as usual for 3 days and then introduce an active starter of 099.

If you are an AHA member, there is a lecture by Kara Taylor of White Labs from the 2014 NHC seminars about blending yeast strains.

 

[cjgenever]

Let the first yeast start ferment to produce flavours. Make a starter with the 099 and pitch it at high Krausen before the abv gets too high. Maybe three or four said depending on your process.

I would suggest some simple sugars. That is a crazy og at 1.200. I'd worry about it being too coying

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I'm not sure even a high gravity 1070 starter will get you there. I have a buddy who pretty much lives for any brew over 1080. Last year he did something similar to what you are trying. However, what he did was brew a 1.090 - 1.100-ish brew first and harvest the yeast. That brew happened to be a Belgian. The yeast that survived harvesting were well conditioned to handle high gravity. He then used these yeasties for a 1200+ brew at 24% ABV. Never tried this myself but it seems like a logical solution.

 

[QuagmiresChin]

That's for all the input. I'll delay the 099 for some time depending on how long high krausen lasts to a max of 3 days.

As far as everything else goes, look like there is no major change I should make to my plan. If anyone else has anything to add, let's hear it.

 

[helibrewer]

Yes, the Maltose Falcons do a Samichlaus brew every year so they have experience and info for doing these high gravity, long aged beers.