“Floating” 3 Keggle + HEX BCS462 eHERMs Build

[BrewKaiser]

Why stand when you can float?

With much inspiration and support from the HBT community I’ve been designing, fabricating, and tinkering on my electric, 3 keggle plus HEX (where the HERMs comes in) for the better part of a year and a half. CIP and ease of access being the main objective of my design eventually lead me to the floating brew rig concept.

Having finally completed my first test brew on my rig I thought I would share. Since so many of you in the HBT community have inspired and helped me hopefully this thread will inspire and help others as they venture into electric brewing.

I consider phase 1 of my 3 phase brewery plan to be 90% complete (we homebrewers are really never done tinkering, are we?), with phase 2 being upgraded fermentation control, and phase 3 being automation.

Brewery Overview:
3 kegs converted to Keggles (HLT, MLT, BK)
HEX (20’ SSt coil inside a 6” diameter by 3’ SSt tube)
Extending and tilting kettle and HEX Mounts (the floating part)
Brew Sink (allows the CIP part)
Custom keg bottom manifolds for HLT and MLT
Supply and Return Manifolds for each pump
50 AMP, 3 Element BCS 462 controller (Thanks Electric Brew Supply!)
4500w ripple element in HLT
2000w element in HEX (will be upgrading to 3000w)
5500w ripple element in BK
11 ball valves and 4 3-way valves (hence need for phase 3)
Brew Cart (4 drawer, roll away tool cabinet)
4 stage, 50 GPD RO

Following this will be individual posts on the various components listed above that I find are unique to my rig.

Special thanks to:
Ryan at Electric Brew Supply for incorporating my design into my panel and control
Brundog for help with BCS programming and other electric brewing nuances
Paul Wicksteed (RIP) for the original inspiration for my HEX
The entire HBT community for your support, knowledge, and inspiration

 

[BrewKaiser]

Alladin’s Magic Brew Rig

I fabricated telescoping mounting brackets with a tilt plate for the keggles. I needed a way to hang the keggles above my sink allowing me to move each forward or back as needed while brewing, installing components, and then tilt to clean out spent grain or general cleaning and maintenance. With the bottom manifold stack hanging approximately 8” from the bottom of the keggles, the mounts needed to extend away from the wall to provide clearance when tilted. The brackets securing the keggle to the tilt plate can easily be replaced in the future should I replace the keggles with larger kettles.

Since the keggles are close to 150 lbs each when full, I had to reinforce the wall in my garage workshop (aka the Kaiser Brauerie) with 1-1/8 plywood and lots of #8 screws into studs.

The brackets are finished with hard black anodizing for durability and wire keeps mounted to the bottom keep cable and power cord bundles tidy and out of the splash zone.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Sure I could have polished all that stainless

But then I risk burning myself every time I brush up against a keggle full of boiling liquid and I would also have vessels that lose heat more easily. So instead, I applied 3 coats of LizardSkin from Mascoat to the vessels. As reported in another thread ( https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597649 ), the ceramic based paint reduces thermal transfer. I can hold my hand on the BK while boiling for 10 seconds. While I have nothing to compare it to, I feel the coating provides improved insulation over bare kettles. I would be happy to set up a comparison with someone to test this.

One brew session down, clean up of exterior paint was just a quick rinse with warm water.

…And I’m rather fond of the matte black finish.

 

[BrewKaiser]

What’s that skinny tank thing?

Why would a sensible person, with no prior eHERMs experience go straight to fabricating a HEX right out of the gate instead of using tried and true RIMS or HERMs coil in the trusty HLT? Because intuitively I liked the idea of having to heat and maintain a smaller volume of water (3.5 Gal vs 10 to 12) and freeing up space in my HLT that the HERMs coil would otherwise occupy. I also realized that if plumbed correctly (sure, what’s a few more 3-way valves, ball valves, and Tri-C fittings&#8230 it could triple duty as my HERMs device, 2nd HLT element when heating strike water, AND act as a counter flow chiller. Oh, I also have no control over my ancestral German need to over engineer everything and tinker. Fortunately, I own a manufacturing business so I have access to any material, machine, or trade skill needed to make whatever I want.

Time will tell if my intuition led me down the right path, but for now this is how I use the HEX:

Pre-Heating Strike: I circulate 17.5 Gal (14 in the HLT and 3.5 in the HEX) HLT -> HEX -> HLT. I run both HLT and HEX elements at 100% duty cycle to Pre-Heat Strike temp. This takes approximately 40 min going from 60*-ish to 154*. I plan to replace the current 2000w element with a 3000w (2000w just not speedy enough for step mashing). Once Pre-Heat Strike temp is reached I shut the exit valve (top) and then the fill valve (bottom 3-way) and turn it into a pressure vessel.

Maintaining HERMs: pretty standard stuff here

Chilling to Whirlpool / Hopstand Temp and Hold: cool boiled wort to 165*-170* and hold with HEX element for prolonged hopstand. I can fine tune the HEX body temp with the element or hot/cold tap water via garden hose connected to the male hose bib fitting at bottom of HEX.

Chilling to Fermentation Temp: Back to the HLT -> HEX -> HLT circulation thing. I capture 10 gal of waste water from the RO system and chill in a fridge to 34*. Before starting the Cool Wort state, I dump all the hot water out of the HEX body and flush with cold tap (using same hose connection). This water exits the ball valve at the top of the HEX and down the hose into the HLT. I hose down inside of HLT with bottom butterfly valve open to displace any residual heat in the HLT. I then fill the HLT with frozen glycol freezer packs and cover with the 10 gal of chilled waste water. I now re-circulate this chill water HLT -> HEX -> HLT while circulating the hot wort. 170* to 68* in about 40 min and I can sleep somewhat better at night knowing I didn’t waste a bunch of water like I used to with my CF plate chiller.

I think the HEX also gives my rig a slight Breaking Bad edge to it…

Side note here: I’m not advocating a HEX or saying it’s a miraculous new brewing device. The idea just resonates with me and I have the resources to make it. I hope in the long run it turns out to serve its purpose as intended. It certainly makes my eHERMs more complicated than the traditional 2 or 3 vessel set ups.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Aren’t brew sinks supposed to go next to your stand?

I like to kick convention whenever and wherever possible (see HEX, ceramic paint, or kettle mounts above). I toyed with a lot of ideas of how to have a CIP system connected to the sewer. All initial designs required fixed vessels that would not easily tippy dump without disconnecting the sanke keg neck.

Once the brew-sink-under-the-keg idea struck me everything gelled. I designed the sink and sent it out to the sheet metal shop. We fabricated the frame such that both pumps mount under the sink (no drip shield for me) and in front is the “brew rail” with ¼ holes spaced 2” apart so that I can quickly and easily remove and re-position supply/return manifolds as needed. The frame is set on leveling casters. Once rolled into position I quickly level out the brew-sink so that everything drains to center. The control panel is set on 1” black pipe that I can swivel out of the way if needed.

After one brew I LOVE the sink. All drips were caught in the sink. When I disconnect hoses they drain to the sink. CIP is a breeze. I hose down outside of the keggles over the sink. You get the idea…

We made 1-1/2 male NPT to 2” Tri-C fittings for the very bottom of the drain stack to which are installed 1-1/2 ABS sewer pipe lengths that control splashing. Fully opened 2” butterfly with a full vessel head pressure moves a lot of liquid quickly.

Too bad I didn’t think of welding the kettle mounts to the back of the brew sink frame. Then the whole thing would be mobile and I would not have had to reinforce walls and install diamond plate…Oh well. Next house…

 

[BrewKaiser]

What’s with the manifolds?

How to have bottom draining keggles, CIP, and reduce tun dead space: go to the machinists and welders! I didn’t want to use a pick up tube; wanted to minimize dead space; AND, I wanted to still flush everything down the sanke neck. So I sharpened my pencil and came up with the idea of butt welding two 2” Tri-C ferrules together and then machining ¾” (more on ¾” in a bit) nipple pipe to the radius of the ferrule and drilled holes in the butt welded ferrules where the nipple pipe would be TIG welded. The HLT has one ¾ nipple exit and the MLT has two: 1 goes to pump1 for HERMs, the other to pump2 which fills the BK during sparge. So essentially the MLT has about 4 oz of dead space. Which I found is a convenient spot for grain that makes it past the false bottom to accumulate.

After a LOT of futzing with silicone o-rings of various sizes, I found using a utility blade to remove the rib off one side of a 2” sanitary gasket makes the best seal possible to the keg neck. Brewershardware also sells flat gaskets, but since the 2” Tri-C ferrule has the gasket rib groove modifying the standard gasket works best for seating the gasket.

At my business we make a lot of heat exchange manifolds for radiation treatment machines. It was not a difficult task to make supply (feeding the pump in) and return (pump out) manifolds. Where I kick convention again (not saying it was the right choice, just my way of thinking) is everything on the supply-side is ¾”, and everything returning is ½”. Why? Stupid German sensibilities overthinking again? Probably, but I recall reading somewhere and intuitively know that for non-self-priming pumps like Chuggers and March you want to oversupply the in and constrain the out. In essence, the ¾ supply hose is like a mini grant (very mini). So far it’s worked out well. Still some priming issues, but flows are good and I didn’t compact the grain bed resulting in a stuck sparge (might be due to me gradually opening the valve)

Back to the manifolds themselves. These are made out seamless SSt 1” tubing and various ½ or ¾ nipple pipe and Tri-C ferrules. The manifolds are compact (too compact in the case of pump2 return) and hopefully more sanitary as everything post boil is Tri-C sanitary valve or fitting. Using conventional SSt plumbing fittings would have resulted in longer manifolds, more unions where leaks can occur, and bacteria like to hang out in threads.

Why is pump2 return so busy? It is, and I kinda need to re-design it. It allows me to return wort to BK, return to HERMs coil (whirlpool and chill), exit to fermenter, sample valve (purge and prime pump, and collect Hydro and PH samples), and hard to see is the Tri-C O2 diffusion stone. Four outputs and 2 inputs in one compact manifold.

The diffusion stone serves two purposes in its location. Since there is a lot of wort left in the hose and coil at the end of the Whirlpool chill state, I close the valve at the bottom of the manifold (after the pump2 out) and open the O2 tank. This pushes remaining wort into my BK. Hot side aeration, you say? It’s post boil, wort is cold, and it’s about to get O2 anyway. Which is the diffusion stone’s second and intended purpose: to oxygenate the wort on its way to the fermenter. This is still a SWAG process so I need to find a better method to dial in O2 diffusion.

The Pump1 Return manifold (HEX and HERMs/MLT) does not have valves on the ports leading back to HEX Coil (HERMs) or HEX Body (that HLT -> HEX -> HLT thing). Some co-mingling of fluids happen, but not much and its pre-boil so who cares. Sample valve is also in place to help prime pump if needed and to collect Mash PH sample.

The manifolds are mounted to the brew rail brackets and sit in saddles that I can orient horizontal or vertical. The rail brackets themselves can be horizontal or vertical.

All this makes for some complicated hose fitting and valve combinations. It took quite some time to research various sources for all this. The one benefit is each hose is purpose built to specific lengths and can only be attached in one configuration. This makes re-assembly of all the hoses easier. But damn, Tri-C clamps and gaskets are a real PITA to get on in tight spaces especially with slippery PBW fingers.

Each supply manifold has a male hose bib fitting installed at the ball valve. This allows me to connect the house tap water garden hose for cleaning cycles, but also to drain that manifold after cleaning.

At first glance it’s a bit of a mess, but it’s my mess and at least to me it makes sense (spoken like a true crazy person).

 

[BrewKaiser]

Dam Ring

I tried to come up with a way to block trub/hop debris and still extract maximum wort out of the BK. I fabricated a 3/4" SSt ring with many holes along the bottom set at a slight angle towards the outside edge of the keggle. The idea is to contain the cone while collecting clean wort from the outside edge. The holes are large enough and numerous to avoid clogging.

So far one test batch with 7.75 oz of hop debris. No clogs and wort into the fermenter was clean. For larger cones or as it begins to ooze to towards the outside near the end of the transfer I can do a quick dump of the butterfly valve to remove some/all of the trub cone.

 

[brewman !]

Kudos to you for acknowledging Paul. RIP.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Kudos to you for acknowledging Paul. RIP.

I enjoyed his YouTube videos. Shame he passed so early.

First time I came across the idea of a HEX was watching his video of his system while doing research for my rig. I think he had already passed at that point or shortly thereafter.

 

[lpdjshaw]

Absolutely amazing, I'm dizzy!

 

[woo_pig]

Dammmmmmmmnnnnnnnn. That is nice.

 

[BrunDog]

This rig is one of the best I have seen on HBT. Ceramic coating, floating design, bottom drain and undersink, etc. It represents true novel thinking. Great job!

 

[RocketBrewer]

Fantastic design! Truly some innovative thinking. Everything AND the kitchen sink!

 

[BrewKaiser]

This rig is one of the best I have seen on HBT. Ceramic coating, floating design, bottom drain and undersink, etc. It represents true novel thinking. Great job!

Thanks again for your assistance with BCS programming and general encouragement. I'll be picking your brain when it's time to incorporate automation.

 

[Carlscan26]

BrewKaiser - did you paint the vessels yourself or have someone do it? Do you know if it would survive on a gas burner heated pot? Can you link to the product please?

 

[BrewKaiser]

BrewKaiser - did you paint the vessels yourself or have someone do it? Do you know if it would survive on a gas burner heated pot? Can you link to the product please?

http://www.lizardskin.com/car-ceramic-insulation.html

At bottom of the site are links to spec sheet and MSDS. Per the spec sheet the Max temp is 350*F, but website states up to 500*F. It is non-combustible, but I would certainly keep it out of direct flame and maybe 2" up from bottom of your kettle or keg skirt if using keggles.

We painted it in one of my spray booths. I purchased the applicator gun kit and we set the air regulator at 40 PSI, the higher the PSI the finer the finish. It's a large nozzle so you will need a 20 Gal plus air compressor to handle the CFM needed.

 

[homerbruer]

This is a really impressive build! The ceramic coating looks great and is functional. HEX for pre-heat, HERMS, *and* chilling is really smart.
I also really like the rubber edge trim on the keggles.

 

[BrewKaiser]

As posted in my thread in the DIY forum ( https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7945986#post7945986 )

PM me if you're interested in having your vessels coated. If enough interest we may be able to make it more affordable and accessible. Don't know if I have the capacity in my paint department, but we can figure that out if enough interest.

 

[BrewKaiser]

This is a really impressive build! The ceramic coating looks great and is functional. HEX for pre-heat, HERMS, *and* chilling is really smart.
I also really like the rubber edge trim on the keggles.

Thanks! I think this is the silicone edge trim I purchased. There are other sources out there. We just have an account with McMaster so was easy to get.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#4869a1/=16xd1dthttp://

 

[Carlscan26]

http://www.lizardskin.com/car-ceramic-insulation.html

At bottom of the site are links to spec sheet and MSDS. Per the spec sheet the Max temp is 350*F, but website states up to 500*F. It is non-combustible, but I would certainly keep it out of direct flame and maybe 2" up from bottom of your kettle or keg skirt if using keggles.

We painted it in one of my spray booths. I purchased the applicator gun kit and we set the air regulator at 40 PSI, the higher the PSI the finer the finish. It's a large nozzle so you will need a 20 Gal plus air compressor to handle the CFM needed.

Thanks!

 

[jcav]

This rig is truly a work of art! You should be very proud of your creation!

John

 

[jangevaa]

Looks great! What are you using for the float switch in your BK? How do you find it in terms of cleaning and all of that?

 

[BrewKaiser]

Looks great! What are you using for the float switch in your BK? How do you find it in terms of cleaning and all of that?

The floats are from: http://www.ebrewsupply.com/side-mount-float-level-switch-npt/

I'm sure others have found some cheaper elsewhere.

These are the cables I used for the floats: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CONIJ9U/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I soldered XLR connector on the ends (Blk and Blue wires) to connect to my panel.

No issues cleaning. 1/2 hr PBW soak and then a hose down directing nozzle jet at the floats and any orifices. Next brew day I give everything a quick rinse and everything gets sanitized during the next boil anyway.

 

[ant-man]

i do believe that you are not a home brewer sir, you are simply a MAD scientist

 

[BrewKaiser]

i do believe that you are not a home brewer sir, you are simply a MAD scientist

Nope! Just Mad.:fro:

 

[homerbruer]

It really is a nice looking setup!! What sort of covering/coating do you have on the floor?

 

[BrewKaiser]

It really is a nice looking setup!! What sort of covering/coating do you have on the floor?

Epoxy with vinyl flakes and polyurethane sealant. Super durable and easy to clean.

http://www.epoxyarmorsystems.com/epoxy-flake/

 

[carpenike]

Love the idea of the pump manifold. Wondering if you had a high level design that shows inputs / outputs? Trying to trace where everything is going / coming from on your picture and starting to scratch my head.

Beautiful setup!

 

[BrewKaiser]

Love the idea of the pump manifold. Wondering if you had a high level design that shows inputs / outputs? Trying to trace where everything is going / coming from on your picture and starting to scratch my head.

Beautiful setup!

Sorry for the long delay of my reply. Been a busy Summer and haven't brewed in 5+ months.

I don't have any diagrams and have been thinking if I can redo these to an easier layout, but in general I am pleased with the compact and sanitary design of the manifolds.

I marked up pictures of the manifolds. Hopefully the text comments will come across in the allowable image size and make sense.

Feel free to ask any questions.

My next project is adding a pre-chiller to my HEX. The 20' of coil in the HEX just isn't enough to cool down 10 Gal of hot liquid quickly. I'm impatient and by the time I'm chilling wort I just want to be done...

 

[BrunDog]

Gorgeous!

 

[BrewKaiser]

I don't know about "gorgeous", to me it still feels like Frankenstein's bride.

I found a picture I took of the manifolds before welding. It 's easier to see how they are laid out. The manifolds with threaded nipple pipe are the HLT/MLT/HEX/HERMs (Pump 1) supply and return manifolds (top left and right in the pic). The bottom two are Pump 2 supply and return manifolds. Supply manifolds are 3/4" and Returns are 1/2". The main tube is 1".

All fittings had a radius machined so that they would fit perfectly on OD of the tube for welding. I honed the ID of all tubes and fittings prior to welding (2nd pic)

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

Sweet!
...but dont bait us with the just the nice coping. We deserve to see the TIG porn too.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Sweet!
...but dont bait us with the just the nice coping. We deserve to see the TIG porn too.

Not much to show on TIG porn. Towards the end of the build it all went quickly from fab to paint. Here's the only pics I have of welds.

No back purge or walking-the-cup welds. My TIG welder is great so only have a little sugar to polish after.

 

[RicardoBrittoni]

I don't even want to know how much all that cost, I'm grumbling about my recent upgrade to SS QD's, and three piece valves cost, that manifold set up with the clamps, that's sexy. Does she have a sister?

What's your wort chill time, I can drop 5.5 gallons on a recirc through a 20' CFWC pumping ice water held the MT from boil to 65 in about 15 min at sea level in a Florida summer. I agree post boil I'm ready to pitch, clean, sit and have a beer. The cost is the ice, I'm adding about $12 per brew in ice cost.

Oh if you have any spare clamps and connects, just send them to me, I'll trade you my old barbs and two piece valves, straight over, you won't have to give me a dime.

 

[BrewKaiser]

I don't even want to know how much all that cost

...Neither does my wife!

Takes 20 min to chill 5.5 Gal. Still too long in my book. I re-use a whole freezer full of the glycol freezer packs I've been collecting along with the brick of freezer ice that always accumulates in the ice maker. I also save 10 Gal of the RO waste water and chill down to 34* in my garage fridge.

Sorry no extra manifold brackets. At one point I was thinking of making extra in case anyone was interested, but realized they likely only work with my manifolds.

 

[SmokeyRydr]

Why stand when you can float?
...
Extending and tilting kettle

View attachment 393667

This is a fantastic work of art! How has it stood up over time?

I too have an inverted keggle brew stand. it works great and is almost 100% CIP, except for cleaning the spent grains from the MT. I'm looking for some kind of tilt for my MT.

Would you be willing to share the plans for your hangers?

I'm sure we'd all love to hear how this has stood up over the years since you made this original post...

Cheers!

 

[Genuine]

Holy cow, I didn't know this thread was 3 years old and didn't get much attention. A lot of work and detail went into this. I would love to see some videos of it being brewed on!

 

[BrewKaiser]

This is a fantastic work of art! How has it stood up over time?

I too have an inverted keggle brew stand. it works great and is almost 100% CIP, except for cleaning the spent grains from the MT. I'm looking for some kind of tilt for my MT.

Would you be willing to share the plans for your hangers?

I'm sure we'd all love to hear how this has stood up over the years since you made this original post...

Cheers!

Thanks @SmokeyRydr . It's still standing, or hanging as it were...

Unfortunately, I don't have any plans for the hangers. I sketched it all out with one of my machinists and fabricators.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Holy cow, I didn't know this thread was 3 years old and didn't get much attention. A lot of work and detail went into this. I would love to see some videos of it being brewed on!

It's been so long I had almost forgotten about this. It's actually seen far less action than I had originally planned. Too little time and too much good local beer. This coupled with a serious focus on health and fitness it's hard to justify the time, cost, and effort for a 5 gallon batch. Almost wish I had made a smaller scale brewery.

I will say that when I do find the itch and the time to brew, it works like a champ. I do someday intend to make another pre-chiller to accelerate the chilling process and I would like to re-design all the manifolds into a more simplified design.

Or, just convert this to a still as I find myself drinking more bourbon than beer these days...