Kraeusen still on top after 17 days

Hi All,

I'm on my 2nd batch, a Christmas Ale. It's been fermenting in the carboy for 17 days. At day three I added 2 lbs honey. I still have a lot of Kraeusen with some CO2 bubbles, but also have a huge cake on the bottom. Very clear beer.

In my first brew my fermentation activity was short lived and Kraeusen dropped very quickly so I didn't have to consider the Kraeusen.

I want to take a FG to see if fermentation is complete. My question - Will the Kraeusen ALWAYS drop or is it just stuck against the carboy wall? Is it ok to break the Kraeusen or push the siphon thru it in order to take the FG?

Thanks,
Nick

Kraeusen sometimes does not fall.
Some Ale yeasts truly flocculate on the top.
What yeast?
When I use WY-1007 I just ignore it, or rock the carboy a bit to wash it down, then let it settle.
And I will bottle/keg when the air-lock bubbles get one minute or more apart.

Give your fermentor a swirl, it'll sink

yes some yeasts are more top fermenters. Do you have a pic? Might be helpful...

Thanks for the responses. I will post an image tonight and confirm yeast type.

uvmnick said:

or is it just stuck against the carboy wall?

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It's pretty common to leave behind a mess on the walls that you can't see through. Can you see that there's still bubbles on the top of the beer or can you not see through the glass at all? If you tilt it the beer level should come down below the bottom of the stuff on the walls. If there's still bubbles on top of the beer give it a gentle swirl and it might go down. Don't worry about washing the crud off the walls into your beer, it'll sink.

After 2 weeks of being undisturbed my beers usually still have krausen on top. Cold crashing for 2-3 days always takes care of this (and more).

As for pulling a sample, just stick the siphon in the beer (through the krausen), about half way down to pull a clean sample.

And the only way to be certain that the beer is finished is to take a gravity reading 2 days apart. If the numbers don't change, it's done.

MagicMatt said:

And the only way to be certain that the beer is finished is to take a gravity reading 2 days apart. If the numbers don't change, it's done.

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This is textbook advice. And you are not wrong, but not for me.

Taking two (or potentially more) hydrometer readings is
1. introducing oxygen
2. introducing a potential source of contamination.
3. Wasting beer that really should end up cold, carbonated, and finished.

If you make sure your yeast is healthy, your bubbles will tell you when it's finished.

flugelizor said:

If you make sure your yeast is healthy, your bubbles will tell you when it's finished.

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Sorry but that is not correct. So you're telling me if I see no more bubbles in my airlock after 24 hours then my beer is done? What if there's a leak in the seal and the gas is escaping some other way?

Relying on the airlock bubbles to tell you when your beer is done will give you nothing but headaches down the road. Sure, you might get lucky sometimes (or even most times), but those few times you thought it was done and it wasn't, boy you'll wish you checked the gravity instead. Bottle bombs are no joke.

flugelizor said:

Taking two (or potentially more) hydrometer readings is
1. introducing oxygen
2. introducing a potential source of contamination.
3. Wasting beer that really should end up cold, carbonated, and finished.

Click to expand...

1. Not if you're doing it correctly.
2. Not if you're doing it correctly.
3. Not if you're doing it correctly.

Allow me to ellaborate:

1) There are many ways to pull a sample without introducing oxygen based on your equipment and setup. Using CO2 for these purposes is simple and effective.

2) If you practice exceptional sanitation like you should, contamination is nothing to worry about. I've been brewing seriously for over 6 years, countless beers, and have never once had any infection or noticeable contamination.

3) When you build a recipe, your volumes should account for this loss. There's a reason many of us "5 galloners" brew 5.5 gallon batches. And besides, it's really not a loss, as it should be going into your belly when done with the sample. Just like with cooking, tasting your beer at each stage or opportunity will help in the long run. Tasting the hydrometer sample after fermentation is one of my favorite parts - I really look forward to it as it's the first chance to get a grasp for how the beer came out. Besides, we're talking about maybe 100mL here. I leave more than that in my carboy when kegging.

flugelizor said:

This is textbook advice. And you are not wrong, but not for me.

Taking two (or potentially more) hydrometer readings is
1. introducing oxygen
2. introducing a potential source of contamination.
3. Wasting beer that really should end up cold, carbonated, and finished.

If you make sure your yeast is healthy, your bubbles will tell you when it's finished.

Click to expand...

I'm with this guy! If your mash temps are correct, your ferm temps are correct and your yeast got a good start in life you have nothing to worry about. My brews hang in primary for 2-3 weeks, during fermentation it's churning like crazy, when it's done everything drops out and it becomes obvious the yeast is done. That's usually around the end of week one. At least a week after I'm 99.999% sure it's as low as it's going to get. When I transfer I take a gravity before proceeding and if it's near or below expected I proceed. If fermentation went strange I'll take multiple readings, otherwise it's just the one.

Re: MagicMatt
Not picking on you. Like I said, you are right. We all just have preferred methods...

Wow, pulling hydrometer samples with CO2?
Sounds pretty fussy. I honestly can't even picture it. I thought you just said you have leaky fermenter seals...:0)
Six years brewing. That's cute. I started in 1991 and never let up.

I hear you, whatever works for you is what's good for you.

Pulling a sample with CO2 is no different than transferring under pressure. Raking cane goes in one port of the carboy cap, CO2 connects to the other. 1-2 PSI of pressure and you've got yourself a sample without oxygen exposure. I find it a bit hard to believe that you "cant even picture" this if you've really been brewing for 25 years. How many batches have you made in those 25 years....15? 50? My point was that if I've been doing it this long enough (and over 170 batches) without any infections or noticeable oxidation, then perhaps your concerns aren't necessarily valid when proper precautions are taken (which should be the norm).

And I never said I have leaky seals. I don't use buckets for that reason. All glass for me.

Yes... 25 years brewing, and 15 batches

Can you honestly tell me that's how you pull hydrometer samples?
When you pressurize the head space it will keep flowing until the pressure equalizes.

You need at least one shut off valve, and some sort of pressure release.
To do that properly without introducing oxygen you need to completely purge the system first, keep caps on the racking cane, and the orange thing, then quickly uncap, and plug in the cane. All the while keeping everything wet with sanitizer?

And the need to clean the whole thing after every sample. And those orange lids have never been air-tight for me.
Like I said. Fussy.

But now I am just nit-picking. Sorry to de-rail original post!

Many of us use this method to transfer. It's tried and true. I don't understand your comment about it only flowing until the pressure equalizes, or needing a shutoff valve or a prv.

The gas is constantly going in at 1-2psi. It is pushing the beer from the carboy to the keg/sample vessel/etc, and at the same time displacing it. I mean think about it....it's no different than serving from a keg really. CO2 in, beer out.

It's a lot easier than you make it out to be. I connect the CO2, turn it on, uncap the other port (CO2 is off-gassing, preventing any inward diffusion for those few seconds) and insert the cane. Since the CO2 is still flowing, now it's pushing out of the top of the cane (and tubing) and purging it of any oxygen. Then you lower the cane into the beer and it flows.

If you have a fermentation vessel with a bottom port/spigot (conical, etc), then gravity will push the beer out, so you only need to pump CO2 into the headspace to replace the beer as it drains (to prevent atmospheric air from getting into the headspace while the beer is transferring).

And yes, I can honestly say this is how I pull hydrometer samples. Though I should note that I generally only pull samples when I'm about to keg, and this is my kegging regimen every time, so by proxy this is how I pull samples for gravity readings. In the off chance that I do need to pull a sample before I'm ready to keg, I'll use a thief and then purge the carboy with CO2 afterwards.

I do the same thing with the orange caps. If you hook it up to a pressure regulator it will never "equalize" that's what a forward pressure regulator does. It releases however much fluid is necessary to maintain whatever presssure it's set to. If there are leaks it doesn't matter just uses more fluid (co2). If you run 1-2 psi always there's no need to purge just leave the other opening unplugged skip it in and let it flow (what magic Matt said). Been doing this and find it much easier than the stupid auto siphon I used before and I have noticed a huge improvement in the hop character stating power of my IPAs from a reduction in potential oxidation.